Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water (Read 2550 times)
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Apr 28th, 2015 at 7:55pm
 
Audi has successfully made diesel fuel from carbon dioxide and water

...
Quote:
German car manufacturer Audi has reportedly invented a carbon-neutral diesel fuel, made solely from water, carbon dioxide and renewable energy sources. And the crystal clear 'e-diesel' is already being used to power the Audi A8 owned by the country’s Federal Minister of Education and Research, Johanna Wanka.

The creation of the fuel is a huge step forward for sustainable transport, but the fact that it’s being backed by an automotive giant is even more exciting. Audi has now set up a pilot plant in Dresden, Germany, operated by clean tech company Sunfire, which will pump out 160 litres of the synthetic diesel every day in the coming months.

Their base product, which they’re calling 'blue crude' is created using a three-step process. The first step involves harvesting renewable energy from sources such as wind, solar and hydropower. They then use this energy to split water into oxygen and pure hydrogen, using a process known as reversible electrolysis.

This hydrogen is then mixed with carbon monoxide (CO), which is created from carbon dioxide (CO2) that’s been harvested from the atmosphere. The two react at high temperatures and under pressure, resulting in the production of the long-chain hydrocarbon compounds that make up the blue crude.

Once it's been refined, the resulting e-diesel can be mixed in with our current diesel fuel, or used on its own to power cars in a more sustainable way.

Sunfire analyses have shown that the synthetic fuel is not only more environmentally friendly, but also has superior combustion when compared to fossil fuels. The overall energy efficiency of the e-diesel is 70 percent, they report.

"The engine runs quieter and fewer pollutants are being created," said Sunfire Chief Technology Officer Christian von Olshausen in a press release.

Of course, with the initial factory only pumping out around 160 litres each day, the fuel isn’t going to have a huge impact on the market just yet. But Audi and Sunfire now want to build a bigger factory, and anticipate that once production is scaled up, the e-diesel will sell to the public for between 1 and 1.50 Euros per litre, dependent on the cost of renewable electricity.

With traditional diesel currently on the market for upwards of 1.50 Euros per litre in Germany, this would make the fuel extremely competitive, and perfectly positioned to made sustainable travel accessible to everyone. "If we get the first sales order, we will be ready to commercialise our technology", said von Olshausen.

Just imagine being able to tear around the countryside in an Audi sportscar, and not having to feel guilty for all the CO2 emissions you're producing. We can't wait.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 7:59pm
 
This is very good news if the production can be scaled up successfully. It would put a ceiling on fuel prices and also give us a fuel source in the post-oil world.

I have thought that biodiesel from crops would be feasible, but if synthetic diesel can be created directly from carbon dioxide and water, that is even better.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 35346
Gender: female
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:03pm
 
Pretty impressive technology. Taking CO2 out of the environment to create a clean renewable fuel is killing more than 2 birds with one stone.

Let's see how this develops when the big oil companies put their oar in the water.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
...
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 23673
WA
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:07pm
 
How much water?
Back to top
 

In the fullness of time...
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:16pm
 
... wrote on Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:07pm:
How much water?

A more pertinent question: how much energy?
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #5 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:20pm
 
Fuel of the future: Research facility in Dresden produces first batch of Audi e-diesel
(www.audi-mediaservices.com, press release)
Quote:
Audi has taken another big step in the development of new, CO2 neutral fuels: A pilot plant in Dresden has started production of the synthetic fuel Audi e diesel.

After a commissioning phase of just four months, the research facility in Dresden started producing its first batches of high‑quality diesel fuel a few days ago. To demonstrate its suitability for everyday use, Federal Minister of Education and Research Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka put the first five liters into her official car, an Audi A8 3.0 TDI clean diesel quattro*, this Tuesday. “This synthetic diesel, made using CO2, is a huge success for our sustainability research. If we can make widespread use of CO2 as a raw material, we will make a crucial contribution to climate protection and the efficient use of resources, and put the fundamentals of the “green economy” in place,” declared Wanka.

The Dresden energy technology corporation sunfire is Audi’s project partner and the plant operator. It operates according to the power‑to‑liquid (PtL) principle and uses green power to produce a liquid fuel. The only raw materials needed are water and carbon dioxide. The CO2 used is currently supplied by a biogas facility. In addition, initially a portion of the CO2 needed is extracted from the ambient air by means of direct air capturing, a technology of Audi’s Zurich‑based partner Climeworks.

Reiner Mangold, Head of Sustainable Product Development at Audi, sees Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑fuels in general as an important component that complements electric mobility: “In developing Audi e-diesel we are promoting another fuel based on CO2 that will allow long‑distance mobility with virtually no impact on the climate. Using CO2 as a raw material represents an opportunity not just for the automotive industry in Germany, but also to transfer the principle to other sectors and countries.”

Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks.

In two further steps, the hydrogen reacts with the CO2 in synthesis reactors, again under pressure and at high temperature. The reaction product is a liquid made from long‑chain hydrocarbon compounds, known as blue crude. The efficiency of the overall process – from renewable power to liquid hydrocarbon – is very high at around 70 percent. Similarly to a fossil crude oil, blue crude can be refined to yield the end product Audi e‑diesel. This synthetic fuel is free from sulfur and aromatic hydrocarbons, and its high cetane number means it is readily ignitable. As lab tests conducted at Audi have shown, it is suitable for admixing with fossil diesel or, prospectively, for use as a fuel in its own right.

The Federal Ministry of Education and Research is supporting the sunfire project, which started in May 2012. Construction work on the facility in Dresden‑Reick kicked off in July 2013 and the plant was commissioned on November 14, 2014. The plant is set to produce over 3,000 liters (792.5 US gal) of Audi e‑diesel over the coming months. Audi is sunfire’s exclusive partner in the automotive sector.

Over and above the partnership with sunfire, Audi has been active in the development of CO2‑neutral fuels – Audi e‑fuels – since 2009. The Audi e‑gas plant in Werlte, Lower Saxony, already produces Audi e‑gas (synthetic methane) in a comparable manner; drivers of the Audi A3 Sportback g‑tron* can fill up on it using a special fuel card. Audi is also conducting joint research into the synthetic manufacture of Audi e‑gasoline with Global Bioenergies, of France. In a further project, Audi has joined forces with the U.S. company Joule, which uses microorganisms to produce the synthetic fuels Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑ethanol.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #6 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:31pm
 
I especially like this bit:
Quote:
Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks.

This means the "baseload renewable" discussion is less important. It is an industrial process that can be varied according to the availability of sustainable energy, producing more when there's plenty of energy and scaling back when sustainable energy production is down.

It's more accurate though to state that it is not the diesel output that would vary, but the hydrogen feedstock used in that process. I expect that a well-designed plant would produce diesel continuously, with the hydrogen feedstock being replenished when spare energy is available and depleted when it is not.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
issuevoter
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9200
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #7 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 9:26pm
 
The house of Saud will do anything to stop it. Not to mention Shell BP Exon.
Back to top
 

No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
IP Logged
 
Billy Jack
Gold Member
*****
Offline


The Duke of Brisbane Town

Posts: 869
Brisbane Town.
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #8 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 9:45pm
 
Them fine folks over there in the Wilds of England must sure be pissed friends.

After, what, a century making allies with mass murderers like Stalin and such, all to contain them cotton picking Germanics, and stealing their technologies and such after WWII, leveling their cities, but bankrupting and impoverishing themselves in the process until their people are so poor they are screaming to leave on ships fer anywhere they can, including France, and they still can't make something as good and whiz bang as them Germanics can?

And then the Germanics have the cheek to invent this in a city that was specifically targeted by them fine folks in the Wilds of England because it had all the refugees walking from the East and such to escape Mr Stalin, their ally?

How dare they!

It makes me sad friends.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
miketrees
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6490
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #9 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 9:51pm
 
Trees/ plants have been doing this for millions of years.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
ImSpartacus2
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6913
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #10 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 10:25pm
 
This sounds a bit like a hoax to me. Bam, how reliable is the source for this report?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #11 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:06pm
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Apr 28th, 2015 at 10:25pm:
This sounds a bit like a hoax to me. Bam, how reliable is the source for this report?

I posted something that a friend lined to me on Facebook, but I have looked around. It's on more mainstream news sites, it looks legit.

Mind-Bending Science: Audi Producing Diesel Fuel Using Water And Carbon Dioxide (Yahoo!)
Audi creates green 'e-diesel fuel of the future' using just carbon dioxide and water (International Business Times)
Audi Creates Synthetic Diesel Out of Just Air and Water (msn.com)
Synthetic diesel fuel production starts (telegraph.co.uk)

I haven't seen it on Australian news sites, but it was only announced last week.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Bam
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #12 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:12pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Apr 28th, 2015 at 9:26pm:
The house of Saud will do anything to stop it. Not to mention Shell BP Exon.

It wouldn't surprise me. The fossil fuel industry has form. They spend about half a billion dollars each year supporting climate change denial and they were buying up key patents for electric cars to suppress competition.
Back to top
 

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 40717
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #13 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:17pm
 
mothra wrote on Apr 28th, 2015 at 8:03pm:
Pretty impressive technology. Taking CO2 out of the environment to create a clean renewable fuel is killing more than 2 birds with one stone.

Let's see how this develops when the big oil companies put their oar in the water.


That's amazing.
I would have never imagined it.
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Wolseley
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1453
Sydney
Gender: male
Re: Audi makes diesel from CO2 and water
Reply #14 - Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:21pm
 
Bam wrote on Apr 28th, 2015 at 11:06pm:
I haven't seen it on Australian news sites, but it was only announced last week.


I had my doubts about it too, but there's a press release from Audi about it:
Quote:
Ingolstadt/Berlin, 2015-04-21
Fuel of the future: Research facility in Dresden produces first batch of Audi e-diesel

The verdict: Pilot plant produces high-quality diesel fuel

No need for mineral oil: e-diesel made from water, CO2 and green power

Minister Wanka: “Synthetic diesel using CO2 is a huge success”

Minister of Research, Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka, and Reiner Mangold, Head of Sustainable Product Development at AUDI AG, refueled the Minister’s official car - a Audi A8 3.0 TDI clean diesel quattro - with the first five liters of Audi e-diesel.

Audi has taken another big step in the development of new, CO2 neutral fuels: A pilot plant in Dresden has started production of the synthetic fuel Audi e diesel.

After a commissioning phase of just four months, the research facility in Dresden started producing its first batches of high‑quality diesel fuel a few days ago. To demonstrate its suitability for everyday use, Federal Minister of Education and Research Prof. Dr. Johanna Wanka put the first five liters into her official car, an Audi A8 3.0 TDI clean diesel quattro*, this Tuesday. “This synthetic diesel, made using CO2, is a huge success for our sustainability research. If we can make widespread use of CO2 as a raw material, we will make a crucial contribution to climate protection and the efficient use of resources, and put the fundamentals of the “green economy” in place,” declared Wanka.

The Dresden energy technology corporation sunfire is Audi’s project partner and the plant operator. It operates according to the power‑to‑liquid (PtL) principle and uses green power to produce a liquid fuel. The only raw materials needed are water and carbon dioxide. The CO2 used is currently supplied by a biogas facility. In addition, initially a portion of the CO2 needed is extracted from the ambient air by means of direct air capturing, a technology of Audi’s Zurich‑based partner Climeworks.

Reiner Mangold, Head of Sustainable Product Development at Audi, sees Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑fuels in general as an important component that complements electric mobility: “In developing Audi e-diesel we are promoting another fuel based on CO2 that will allow long‑distance mobility with virtually no impact on the climate. Using CO2 as a raw material represents an opportunity not just for the automotive industry in Germany, but also to transfer the principle to other sectors and countries.”

Production of Audi e‑diesel involves various steps: First, water heated up to form steam is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen by means of high-temperature electrolysis. This process, involving a temperature in excess of 800 degrees Celsius, is more efficient than conventional techniques because of heat recovery, for example. Another special feature of high-temperature electrolysis is that it can be used dynamically, to stabilize the grid when production of green power peaks.
In two further steps, the hydrogen reacts with the CO2 in synthesis reactors, again under pressure and at high temperature. The reaction product is a liquid made from long‑chain hydrocarbon compounds, known as blue crude. The efficiency of the overall process – from renewable power to liquid hydrocarbon – is very high at around 70 percent. Similarly to a fossil crude oil, blue crude can be refined to yield the end product Audi e‑diesel. This synthetic fuel is free from sulfur and aromatic hydrocarbons, and its high cetane number means it is readily ignitable. As lab tests conducted at Audi have shown, it is suitable for admixing with fossil diesel or, prospectively, for use as a fuel in its own right.

The Federal Ministry of Education and Research is supporting the sunfire project, which started in May 2012. Construction work on the facility in Dresden‑Reick kicked off in July 2013 and the plant was commissioned on November 14, 2014. The plant is set to produce over 3,000 liters (792.5 US gal) of Audi e‑diesel over the coming months. Audi is sunfire’s exclusive partner in the automotive sector.

Over and above the partnership with sunfire, Audi has been active in the development of CO2‑neutral fuels – Audi e‑fuels – since 2009. The Audi e‑gas plant in Werlte, Lower Saxony, already produces Audi e‑gas (synthetic methane) in a comparable manner; drivers of the Audi A3 Sportback g‑tron* can fill up on it using a special fuel card. Audi is also conducting joint research into the synthetic manufacture of Audi e‑gasoline with Global Bioenergies, of France. In a further project, Audi has joined forces with the U.S. company Joule, which uses microorganisms to produce the synthetic fuels Audi e‑diesel and Audi e‑ethanol.


https://www.audi-mediaservices.com/publish/ms/content/en/public/pressemitteilung...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print