Australian Politics Forum - So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?

Karnal

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #15 - May 19^th, 2015 at 6:07pm

moses wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 4:41pm:

Exactly how would muslims reform islam and remove the commands from allah, the teachings of muhammad, the verses in the qur'an and hadi'th which are the root cause of muslims committing unspeakably inhumane human rights atrocities against their fellow man?

muslims are locked into the cycle of islamic depravity by:

(a). Their sacred tenets which exhort islamic decadence as a consecrated path for muslims.

(b). This supposedly divine dogma is declared to be infallible, perfect, never to be changed.

(c). muslims have embraced islamic degeneracy for the last 1400 years, without any sign of a letup, who will get them to change now?

(d). Their apologists fight tooth and nail to stop reform also, as they will never blame muslims and islam for their own problems. Instead they embark on a never ending mode of excuses, lies, false analogies etc.

Reform means that allah, muhammad and the qur'an were wrong, which in turn means the end of islam.

Easy. You emphasise prayer, charity, fasting, pilgrimage, spiritual striving and hospitality to strangers.

You then put the history into perspective and trust that wisdom comes from spiritual practice, not dogma - humility, not books. You refuse to deify prophets, who are only human, but seek the Almighty in all.

But what am I saying? Millions of Muslims are doing this already.

Problem solved, Moses. Happy?

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Karnal

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #16 - May 19^th, 2015 at 6:11pm

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 9:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 8:28pm:

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

So, does Islam need a Martin Luther? Mehdi Hasan, suggests not.

Does Islam need to change??

Yes.

Islam is ever changing, Soren.

How has it changed?

Islam is ever unchanging.

Using your views, Soren, Christianity hasn't changed either... Roll Eyes

Soooo, how has Islam changed?

Well, it used to export civilisation to the West.

Now we export Freeeedom and demokracy to them.

It is a jolly world, no?

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Soren

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #17 - May 19^th, 2015 at 6:35pm

Karnal wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 9:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 8:28pm:

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

So, does Islam need a Martin Luther? Mehdi Hasan, suggests not.

Does Islam need to change??

Yes.

Islam is ever changing, Soren.

How has it changed?

Islam is ever unchanging.

Using your views, Soren, Christianity hasn't changed either... Roll Eyes

Soooo, how has Islam changed?

Well, it used to export civilisation to the West.

Now we export Freeeedom and demokracy to them.

It is a jolly world, no?

It's bollocks, on both accounts.

They did not export civilisation anywhere, least of all to the West - and they are not taking our export of civilisation now.

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Karnal

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #18 - May 19^th, 2015 at 8:15pm

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

Karnal wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 9:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 8:28pm:

Soren wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

So, does Islam need a Martin Luther? Mehdi Hasan, suggests not.

Does Islam need to change??

Yes.

Islam is ever changing, Soren.

How has it changed?

Islam is ever unchanging.

Using your views, Soren, Christianity hasn't changed either... Roll Eyes

Soooo, how has Islam changed?

Well, it used to export civilisation to the West.

Now we export Freeeedom and demokracy to them.

It is a jolly world, no?

It's bollocks, on both accounts.

They did not export civilisation anywhere, least of all to the West - and they are not taking our export of civilisation now.

Thanks for letting me know, dear boy. Good show.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther? Reply #19 - May 19^th, 2015 at 9:31pm Karnal wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 8:15pm: Thanks for letting me know, dear boy. Good show. I have been letting you know for years, PB, but you couldn't be more resistant to improvement. Grinning and sneering is all you ever get to, and that's when you make an effort.
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Karnal

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #20 - May 19^th, 2015 at 11:14pm

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 9:31pm:

Karnal wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 8:15pm:

Thanks for letting me know, dear boy. Good show.

I have been letting you know for years, PB, but you couldn't be more resistant to improvement.
Grinning and sneering is all you ever get to, and that's when you make an effort.

No no, old boy, nothing to.apologise for. Your effort above is sterling. Just the ticket.

Let’s not let on to Mother though, eh? We’ll keep this one between ourselves.

Carry on, dear boy.

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moses

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #21 - May 20^th, 2015 at 4:58pm

Karnal wrote: Quote:

Easy. You emphasise prayer, charity, fasting, pilgrimage, spiritual striving and hospitality to strangers.

You then put the history into perspective and trust that wisdom comes from spiritual practice, not dogma - humility, not books. You refuse to deify prophets, who are only human, but seek the Almighty in all.

But what am I saying? Millions of Muslims are doing this already.

Problem solved, Moses. Happy?

No, you are advocating a fairy tale of a supposed future islam, which would be the antithesis of what islam is today.

You didn't address the problem E.G.: the pure evil contained in commands, teachings and verses of islam. (what do muslims do with it?)

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Karnal

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #22 - May 20^th, 2015 at 5:12pm

moses wrote on May 20^th, 2015 at 4:58pm:

Karnal wrote: Quote:

Easy. You emphasise prayer, charity, fasting, pilgrimage, spiritual striving and hospitality to strangers.

You then put the history into perspective and trust that wisdom comes from spiritual practice, not dogma - humility, not books. You refuse to deify prophets, who are only human, but seek the Almighty in all.

But what am I saying? Millions of Muslims are doing this already.

Problem solved, Moses. Happy?

No, you are advocating a fairy tale of a supposed future islam, which would be the antithesis of what islam is today.

You didn't address the problem E.G.: the pure evil contained in commands, teachings and verses of islam. (what do muslims do with it?)

I just told you. I’m only telling you what Muslims have told me, you know.

Do you really think I could make something like that up?

I’m not that good at taqiyya.

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Brian Ross

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #23 - May 20^th, 2015 at 8:27pm

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

It's bollocks, on both accounts.

Really, Soren?

Quote:

They did not export civilisation anywhere, least of all to the West -

So, what about their preservation of the science, the medicine, the philosophy of the Ancients which the West had conveniently forgotten or ignored, Soren? You are aware, I take it of what contribution the taking of the city of Toledo and its massive libraries by the Spaniards from the Moors had on the kick starting of the Renaissance?

Quote:

and they are not taking our export of civilisation now.

I suppose they don't appreciate it being exported on the tips of bayonets, Soren. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: May 20^th, 2015 at 10:51pm by Brian Ross »

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #24 - May 20^th, 2015 at 9:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 20^th, 2015 at 8:27pm:

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

It's bollocks, on both accounts.

So, what about their preservation of the science, the medicine, the philosophy of the Ancients which the West had conveniently forgotten or ignored, Soren? You are aware, I take it of what contribution the taking of the city of Toledo and its massive libraries by the Spaniards from the Moors had on the kick starting of the Renaissance?

Bollocks. It's just not true.

It's the same caper as the 'Arabic' numbers. They are not Arabic at all but Indian.

The renaissance was not kick started by the Muslims except by finally overrunning Byzantium and causing a massive influx of Greek refugees and books to the West.

The 'preservation' of antiquity by the Muslims is a load of nonsense.

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Brian Ross

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #25 - May 20^th, 2015 at 10:52pm

Soren wrote on May 20^th, 2015 at 9:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 20^th, 2015 at 8:27pm:

Soren wrote on May 19^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

It's bollocks, on both accounts.

So, what about their preservation of the science, the medicine, the philosophy of the Ancients which the West had conveniently forgotten or ignored, Soren? You are aware, I take it of what contribution the taking of the city of Toledo and its massive libraries by the Spaniards from the Moors had on the kick starting of the Renaissance?

Bollocks. It's just not true.

It's the same caper as the 'Arabic' numbers. They are not Arabic at all but Indian.

The renaissance was not kick started by the Muslims except by finally overrunning Byzantium and causing a massive influx of Greek refugees and books to the West.

The 'preservation' of antiquity by the Muslims is a load of nonsense.

Funny how all the historians believe otherwise, Soren... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96367	Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther? Reply #26 - May 21^st, 2015 at 9:27am Arabic numbers were developed in India - not by Arabs, but by Muslim Persians. Rich tapestry, innit.
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Yadda

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Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther?
Reply #27 - May 21^st, 2015 at 10:04am

Karnal wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 9:27am:

Arabic numbers were developed in India - not by Arabs, but by Muslim Persians.

Rich tapestry, innit.

Yeah.

Moslems invented Algebra, and Arabic numbers, and the first computer chip, and discovered the Americas, and discovered radio waves, ...and falafal's, too.

The list of moslem accomplishments is endless. Cheesy

Its a rich tapestry of moslem lies and deceit, innit.

And don't forget Islamophobia!!!!

Moslems discovered Islamophobia too!!!!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/robert-spencer/the-top-anti-muslim-hate-crime-h...

.

Yadda said....
Quote:

Quote:

Chief Muslim claims Jewish Temples never existed
March 15, 2007
"....The Jewish Temples never existed.......descriptions of the Jewish Temples in the Hebrew Tanach, in the Talmud and in Byzantine and Roman writings from the Temple periods were forged, and that the Torah was falsified to claim Biblical patriarchs and matriarchs were Jewish when indeed they were prophets for Islam."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=40628

Quote:

Temple Mount '100% Islamic'
June 01, 2008
"....Taysir Tamimi, chief Palestinian Justice and one of the most influential Muslim leaders in Israel, argued the Jewish Temples never existed,...."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65919

n.b.

And just look how moslems respond,

when other independent historic sources, contradict the moslem 'narrative'....

".....descriptions of the Jewish Temples in the Hebrew Tanach, in the Talmud and in Byzantine and Roman writings from the Temple periods were forged,...."

But of course they were! Shocked

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96367	Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther? Reply #28 - May 21^st, 2015 at 10:48am Don't forget homos, Y. Allah Uakbar.
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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18671 Gender:	Re: So, does Islam need a Martin Luther? Reply #29 - May 21^st, 2015 at 10:59am Brian Ross wrote on May 18^th, 2015 at 8:28pm: The question is does Islam need a Martin Luther? They have one in Caliph Baghdadi. Islam has been reforming,it's getting more fundamental.
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