Australian Politics Forum - controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong

Brian Ross

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #30 - Jun 13^th, 2015 at 8:16pm

Soren wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 12:57pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 4:40pm:

Because they tend to be very aggressively violent in defence of their semi-literate warlord and his absurd claims.

Some do, most don't, Soren.

Just as some Christians proved "aggressively violent in defence of their saviour" during the Piss Christ episode in Melbourne in 1998. Were their actions characteristic of all Christians?

You are making up crap, Brain.

How many died because of Mohammed cartoons - and how many died because of Piss Christ? Tell us, Brain.

How many Christians were removed from the Gallery because of the danger they represented to the work(s) of Art, Soren?

How many Christians demonstrated outside, threatening the work(s) of Army, Soren?

I thought we were talking about a principle, not numbers but of course, everytime you find yourself being tripped because of principle, you throw in the numbers argument. You delight in doing that, don't you? It's hollow and futile even trying to discuss this with you. You keep moving your goalposts, every time a goal is scored. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #31 - Jun 13^th, 2015 at 8:20pm

Soren wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 4:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 12:57pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 4:40pm:

I don't mind Muslims fighting it out among themselves in what they are pleased to call 'Muslim lands', but when they start killing people in the West in the name of said warlord and his crazy teachings, it does concern me and other non-Muslims in the West.

Have you ever understood why they have chosen to do that, Soren?

It's got little to do with the "Muslim warlord" and a lot to do with what they want their fellow Believers to believe... Roll Eyes

SO they are killing Westerners because they want their fellow Muslims to believe in Mohammed's teachings their way?? ANd you think that's somehow a good explanation?

It is actually an excellent explanation, Soren. Whether you agree with it or not, it is how they, themselves express their reasoning. The objective of September 11 was not to hurt the United States as much as provoke the United States to hurt Muslims by striking back, and so creating chaos which Usama bin Laden could profit from. Seems to have worked in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quote:

What the hell is wrong with you? Is there no limit to your spineless squishiness?

My opinion wasn't even asked, Soren, nor did I offer it, yet you seem to believe that makes me "spineless" and "squishy"?

I have expressed myself in the past that I condemn Terrorism and Terrorists. Do I need to repeat that for you in every post? Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #32 - Jun 14^th, 2015 at 1:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 8:16pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 12:57pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 4:40pm:

Because they tend to be very aggressively violent in defence of their semi-literate warlord and his absurd claims.

Some do, most don't, Soren.

Just as some Christians proved "aggressively violent in defence of their saviour" during the Piss Christ episode in Melbourne in 1998. Were their actions characteristic of all Christians?

You are making up crap, Brain.

How many died because of Mohammed cartoons - and how many died because of Piss Christ? Tell us, Brain.

How many Christians were removed from the Gallery because of the danger they represented to the work(s) of Art, Soren?

How many Christians demonstrated outside, threatening the work(s) of Army, Soren?

I thought we were talking about a principle, not numbers but of course, everytime you find yourself being tripped because of principle, you throw in the numbers argument. You delight in doing that, don't you? It's hollow and futile even trying to discuss this with you. You keep moving your goalposts, every time a goal is scored. Roll Eyes

Sooooo...... How many died because of Mohammed cartoons - and how many died because of Piss Christ?

Being removed from a gallery or protesting outside IS NOT THE SAME as being gunned down, Brain.

Does this difference completely escape you? Am I goalpost shifting when I do not accept the your stupid, spineless equivocation between demonstrations and murders?

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Soren

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #33 - Jun 14^th, 2015 at 1:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 8:20pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 4:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 12:57pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 4:40pm:

I don't mind Muslims fighting it out among themselves in what they are pleased to call 'Muslim lands', but when they start killing people in the West in the name of said warlord and his crazy teachings, it does concern me and other non-Muslims in the West.

Have you ever understood why they have chosen to do that, Soren?

It's got little to do with the "Muslim warlord" and a lot to do with what they want their fellow Believers to believe... Roll Eyes

SO they are killing Westerners because they want their fellow Muslims to believe in Mohammed's teachings their way?? ANd you think that's somehow a good explanation?

It is actually an excellent explanation, Soren. Whether you agree with it or not, it is how they, themselves express their reasoning. The objective of September 11 was not to hurt the United States as much as provoke the United States to hurt Muslims by striking back, and so creating chaos which Usama bin Laden could profit from. Seems to have worked in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Well, if that is really why they are killing Westerners then there should be no toleration of them and their sympathisers and enablers and excusers. They all deserve to be utterly ostracised and discriminated against. Confiscate their property, strip them of citizenship and boot them out.
How hideous. They have no place in non-Muslims countries.

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Brian Ross

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #34 - Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 1:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 8:20pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 4:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 13^th, 2015 at 12:57pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 8^th, 2015 at 4:40pm:

I don't mind Muslims fighting it out among themselves in what they are pleased to call 'Muslim lands', but when they start killing people in the West in the name of said warlord and his crazy teachings, it does concern me and other non-Muslims in the West.

Have you ever understood why they have chosen to do that, Soren?

It's got little to do with the "Muslim warlord" and a lot to do with what they want their fellow Believers to believe... Roll Eyes

SO they are killing Westerners because they want their fellow Muslims to believe in Mohammed's teachings their way?? ANd you think that's somehow a good explanation?

It is actually an excellent explanation, Soren. Whether you agree with it or not, it is how they, themselves express their reasoning. The objective of September 11 was not to hurt the United States as much as provoke the United States to hurt Muslims by striking back, and so creating chaos which Usama bin Laden could profit from. Seems to have worked in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Well, if that is really why they are killing Westerners then there should be no toleration of them and their sympathisers and enablers and excusers. They all deserve to be utterly ostracised and discriminated against. Confiscate their property, strip them of citizenship and boot them out.
How hideous. They have no place in non-Muslims countries.

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #35 - Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm:

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

Exactly, Brain. The boundaries are so murky and shifting that it is impossible to say what exactly distinguishes non-Islamist Muslims from Islamist Muslims.
It requires the coining of exactly such empty labels.

So I think it is safe to say that people who believe in the Koran, in Mohammed's prophethood are one big group sharing more with each other (despite the variety of religious fervour among them) than they do with people who reject the Koran and Mohammed.

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Brian Ross

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #36 - Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:28pm

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm:

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

Exactly, Brain. The boundaries are so murky and shifting that it is impossible to say what exactly distinguishes non-Islamist Muslims from Islamist Muslims.
It requires the coining of exactly such empty labels.

So I think it is safe to say that people who believe in the Koran, in Mohammed's prophethood are one big group sharing more with each other (despite the variety of religious fervour among them) than they do with people who reject the Koran and Mohammed.

Oh, I don't doubt that, Soren. However, it is the degree to which they believe in the Q'ran and Mohammed's teachings and how they intend to see them come to fruitition that differentiates them. Just as you have Catholics and then you have Calvinists and you have Opus Dei... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #37 - Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:38pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm:

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

Exactly, Brain. The boundaries are so murky and shifting that it is impossible to say what exactly distinguishes non-Islamist Muslims from Islamist Muslims.
It requires the coining of exactly such empty labels.

So I think it is safe to say that people who believe in the Koran, in Mohammed's prophethood are one big group sharing more with each other (despite the variety of religious fervour among them) than they do with people who reject the Koran and Mohammed.

Oh, I don't doubt that, Soren. However, it is the degree to which they believe in the Q'ran and Mohammed's teachings and how they intend to see them come to fruitition that differentiates them. Just as you have Catholics and then you have Calvinists and you have Opus Dei... Roll Eyes

The difference - huge difference - is that the Koran and Mohammed are violent and supremacist, whatever way you interpret them.

Jesus and the New Testament, on the other hand, are about love and self-sacrifice, whichever way you interpret them.

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Brian Ross

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #38 - Jun 14^th, 2015 at 5:59pm

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm:

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

Exactly, Brain. The boundaries are so murky and shifting that it is impossible to say what exactly distinguishes non-Islamist Muslims from Islamist Muslims.
It requires the coining of exactly such empty labels.

So I think it is safe to say that people who believe in the Koran, in Mohammed's prophethood are one big group sharing more with each other (despite the variety of religious fervour among them) than they do with people who reject the Koran and Mohammed.

Oh, I don't doubt that, Soren. However, it is the degree to which they believe in the Q'ran and Mohammed's teachings and how they intend to see them come to fruitition that differentiates them. Just as you have Catholics and then you have Calvinists and you have Opus Dei... Roll Eyes

The difference - huge difference - is that the Koran and Mohammed are violent and supremacist, whatever way you interpret them.

Jesus and the New Testament, on the other hand, are about love and self-sacrifice, whichever way you interpret them.

That is the happy-clappy interpretation of The Bible and Christ's teachings, Soren. Care to explain how the church supported European imperialism? Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #39 - Jun 15^th, 2015 at 8:14am

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm:

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

Exactly, Brain. The boundaries are so murky and shifting that it is impossible to say what exactly distinguishes non-Islamist Muslims from Islamist Muslims.
It requires the coining of exactly such empty labels.

So I think it is safe to say that people who believe in the Koran, in Mohammed's prophethood are one big group sharing more with each other (despite the variety of religious fervour among them) than they do with people who reject the Koran and Mohammed.

Oh, I don't doubt that, Soren. However, it is the degree to which they believe in the Q'ran and Mohammed's teachings and how they intend to see them come to fruitition that differentiates them. Just as you have Catholics and then you have Calvinists and you have Opus Dei... Roll Eyes

The difference - huge difference - is that the Koran and Mohammed are violent and supremacist, whatever way you interpret them.

Jesus and the New Testament, on the other hand, are about love and self-sacrifice, whichever way you interpret them.

That is the happy-clappy interpretation of The Bible and Christ's teachings, Soren. Care to explain how the church supported European imperialism? Roll Eyes

You talk about European colonisation as if it was a bad thing in itself.

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Brian Ross

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #40 - Jun 15^th, 2015 at 9:21am

Soren wrote on Jun 15^th, 2015 at 8:14am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm:

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

Exactly, Brain. The boundaries are so murky and shifting that it is impossible to say what exactly distinguishes non-Islamist Muslims from Islamist Muslims.
It requires the coining of exactly such empty labels.

So I think it is safe to say that people who believe in the Koran, in Mohammed's prophethood are one big group sharing more with each other (despite the variety of religious fervour among them) than they do with people who reject the Koran and Mohammed.

Oh, I don't doubt that, Soren. However, it is the degree to which they believe in the Q'ran and Mohammed's teachings and how they intend to see them come to fruitition that differentiates them. Just as you have Catholics and then you have Calvinists and you have Opus Dei... Roll Eyes

The difference - huge difference - is that the Koran and Mohammed are violent and supremacist, whatever way you interpret them.

Jesus and the New Testament, on the other hand, are about love and self-sacrifice, whichever way you interpret them.

That is the happy-clappy interpretation of The Bible and Christ's teachings, Soren. Care to explain how the church supported European imperialism? Roll Eyes

You talk about European colonisation as if it was a bad thing in itself.

Ask it's victims that question, Soren. Ooops, they're all dead, now aren't they? You've failed to answer the question though, haven't you? Typical. Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: controversial pastor coming to Australian Hillsong
Reply #41 - Jun 15^th, 2015 at 12:11pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 15^th, 2015 at 9:21am:

Soren wrote on Jun 15^th, 2015 at 8:14am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 14^th, 2015 at 4:15pm:

So, do you mean the Islamists or all Muslims, Soren? One has to clarify, as you tend to write in such generalist terms that either group could be the subject of your persecution. Roll Eyes

Exactly, Brain. The boundaries are so murky and shifting that it is impossible to say what exactly distinguishes non-Islamist Muslims from Islamist Muslims.
It requires the coining of exactly such empty labels.

So I think it is safe to say that people who believe in the Koran, in Mohammed's prophethood are one big group sharing more with each other (despite the variety of religious fervour among them) than they do with people who reject the Koran and Mohammed.

Oh, I don't doubt that, Soren. However, it is the degree to which they believe in the Q'ran and Mohammed's teachings and how they intend to see them come to fruitition that differentiates them. Just as you have Catholics and then you have Calvinists and you have Opus Dei... Roll Eyes

The difference - huge difference - is that the Koran and Mohammed are violent and supremacist, whatever way you interpret them.

Jesus and the New Testament, on the other hand, are about love and self-sacrifice, whichever way you interpret them.

That is the happy-clappy interpretation of The Bible and Christ's teachings, Soren. Care to explain how the church supported European imperialism? Roll Eyes

You talk about European colonisation as if it was a bad thing in itself.

Ask it's victims that question, Soren. Ooops, they're all dead, now aren't they? You've failed to answer the question though, haven't you? Typical. Roll Eyes

You mean ask the beneficiaries?
The Church and all right thinking people support the spreading of civilisation, bringing literacy, sanitation, railways to the backward and the uncivilised.

Look around the world, the benefits of European civilisation are overwhelming.

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