Brian Ross wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 6:42pm:

When criticising Islam, why do we also have to criticise everyone else at the same time for the criticism of Islam to be valid?  Why can't we SPECIFICALLY be critical of Islam?
When the Catholic Church is criticised for its history of pedophile priests, NOBODY is saying or would accept a deflection like , 'Hey, look over there, pedophile imams and followers of Mohammed or Buddha or whatever'.

? Why the immediate deflection to Jews and Christians and others INSTEAD of addressing the criticism??  Just bloody well own up to the short-comings of Islam and Mohammed. Enough of the endless arse-covering deflection and yea but no but nonsense.

Muslims, demonstrate some self-awareness and take on board valid criticisms of Islam - not of your rival sects but of Islam itself.  After all, Muslims need to reform Islam, not anyone else.
And if you think it's fine and dandy as it and should not be criticised on any account - say so. But the endless 'what about others' response to every criticism of Islam  is deeply and calculatedly dishonest and so unacceptable.

Soren wrote on Jun 25^th, 2015 at 8:25pm:


Why do Christians avoid the criticisms made of their religion all the time, Soren?   Mmmm?   

moses wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 3:30pm:


I'm glad you've sorted that one out, Moses. You've read the Koran and the Ahadith. I'm just curious - where does it demand human sacrifice to a demonic deity?

Please forgive such spineless Muslim appeasement by daring to ask such a theological question.

moses wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 4:06pm:


Sorry, Moses, I think you’ve misunderstood. I sked about human sacrifice to Allah, not defensive measures to protect people.

If you don’t mind saying, which verses support this? If you give me the numbers, I’ll look it up.

moses wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 3:30pm:


Care to quote where I have done that, Moses?   

Quote:


And who's name do Christians invoke when they make their ritual cannibalistic sacrifice, Moses?   

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:
Just look at any of your excuses in this thread alone

Quote:


Their living Saviour. While partaking of a sip of wine / cordial and a wafer.

muslims invoke the satanic name of allah while slaughtering human beings in the cruelest manner possible, as an appeasement to the demonic allah. (an unassailable example of muslims performing islamic human sacrifice in the 21st century)

Tell us again how there's no difference between the two.

moses wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:23pm:


So how do you account for the calls to slay God’s enemies in the Old Testament, Moses?

The Jews were even ordered to cut off their enemies’ foreskins and offer them to Yahweh. King David created a pile of foreskins on one battlefield that went into the thousands - all offered to Jehova using ritualistic prayers.

The Judeo-Christian religion was born with God’s command to Abraham to kill his own son. Is all this human sacrifice too?

I’m keen to know what you think, Moses.

moses wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 3:10pm:


That’s right, Moses. It was a testament to Abraham’s faith that he was prepared to sacrifice his own son. I believe the passage uses the term sacrifice too.

It’s good to see we agree that the Old Testament has examples of human sacrifice. Where we disagree, I think, is that religious admonitions to kill gentiles/infidels represent offerings to God/demonic entities. In the Bible, killing gentiles, taking their land and wives as slaves to "please God" is not a form of human sacrifice. It's taking care of God's chosen people.

What the Abraham story represents is the historical shift away from human sacrifice. The covenant of Abraham and the rite of circumcision are about sacrificing one’s male children and slave’s blood in the place of their lives.

Previously, it was common in times of famine or war to sacrifice a male child. The covenant of Abraham changes this to a symbolic offering of flesh. The other sacrifice Jews make is the blood of lambs during passover. This is to appease God and prevent the death of first born sons from disease.

Christians, of course, moved away from circumcision and blood sacrifice entirely. Within Christianity, baptism and Holy Communion perform this function. While Communion references blood, it is not a form of symbolic sacrifice as circumcision is for Jews. Communion is about becoming one with the spiritual flesh and blood of Christ.

Islam has no sacrificial equivalent whatsoever. The commitment Muslims make to Allah is verbal. This is why Islam is often represented by a book. Islam seeks to move away from the blood rituals of Judaism and toward a religious practice based on prayer. Islam also moved away from the notion of a race of people or a nation, so the symbolism of blood is absent. Muhammed sought to unite disparate tribes, and at the same time allowed them their own cultural identities.

The narrative of Islam today continues this. Those who do the Haj are encouraged to see beyond the differences in other Muslims’ racial and cultural features. They are encouraged to see just how different Muslims can look, but similtaneously adhere (allegedly) to the same core values. Like Jews, Muslims practice circumcision, but they don't do this as a blood offering. They do so because Muhammed was allegedly "born" circumcised. Circumcision, for Muslims, is not part of a "blood covenant" with God.

So, if I may, I ask again: how do Muslims practice the blood sacrifice that we agree is an important part of Judaism?