Australian Politics Forum - islam and human sacrifice

Yadda

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #75 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:52am

Yadda wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:16am:

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:21pm:

Here's the gist of the problem, Gandy.

The 'vast majority' are ideologically indistinguishable from the 'tiny minority'. The difference is in tactics and strategy - and violence. This is exactly why the vast majoryu cannot even begin to root out the 'tiny minority'.

They are almost always 'surprised' when a 'good kid' goes and signs up with ISIS.

Why?

Because not even the Muslims can tell the 'vast majority' and the tiny minority' apart UNTIL AFTER the bombs have been set off, the heads cut off, the captive girls raped.

UNTIL THEN, there is no difference between the peace loving and the blood soaked.

Exactly so.

S,

This too, exposes a dichotomy - that we can see, is [or can be!!!!] exploited by EVERY moslem [living/resident in the West].

And that dichotomy is;

1/ That every single moslem [living/resident in the West] can claim to be a part of the 'peaceful majority', and can, and will, even disparage those 'extremist' moslem 'impersonators', who are bringing ISLAM into disrepute [i.e. those 'extremist' moslem, who are 'damaging' the 'interests' of the guest moslem community.].

2/ But as soon as that very same individual 'activates' himself, and becomes an active jihadi [e.g. he stabs a cop, or he travels to join IS in Syria, or he travels to Somalia, etc, etc], and participates in 'righteous' moslem violence atrocities against 'disbelievers', he always THEN will justify his actions, using ISLAMIC doctrines and texts!!!

And the exact reverse of that dichotomy, is also exhibited by the mendacious moslem.

e.g.

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric
January 18, 2007
SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.
Firebrand Sheik Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool [Australia], delivered the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series being sold in Australia and overseas.
.........Sheik Feiz says in the video.
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
An Australian citizen born in Sydney who has spent the past year living in Lebanon, Sheik Feiz was exposed this week in a British documentary Undercover Mosque.
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).

"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

......Sheik Feiz - who just two weeks ago said he felt like an "alien" in his own country - leads about 4000 followers through his Global Islamic Youth Centre in Sydney's southwest.
He also accused Australian authorities of being over-zealous in their approach to clerics like him.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

------ >

NOW LISTEN TO THE EXACT SAME MOSLEM AS HE SPEAKS TO A NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - WHO HAVE BECOME AWARE OF HIS PREVIOUS STATEMENTS

Fiery Australian cleric claims jihad remarks were misunderstood;

Quote:

"The jihad I speak of is not one of violence,"...

"I don't believe in suicide bombing. I don't believe in violence against others," he said.

"We denounce that.

This is not Islamic law and it is not moral."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/fiery-australian-cleric-claims-jihad-remarks-w...

.

You know, these moslems are very, very, duplicitous, and deceitful people.

!!!!!

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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MumboJumbo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1474 Gender:	Re: islam and human sacrifice Reply #76 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 10:55am Yadda wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:52am: And the exact reverse of that dichotomy, is also exhibited by the mendacious moslem. Yadda, you're going to need to clarify your thoughts a little more. When you say "exact reverse", which way are you reversing it? Do you perhaps mean the converse, or to contra-distinguish it?
Back to top	See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 2:58pm: Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles? IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #77 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:28pm

MumboJumbo wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 10:55am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 1:52am:

And the exact reverse of that dichotomy, is also exhibited by the mendacious moslem.

When you say "exact reverse", which way are you reversing it?

Do you perhaps mean the converse, or to contra-distinguish it?

Easy...

SITU #1
Firstly; "ISLAM is peace. ISLAM is a peaceful and tolerant faith." <---- What is coming out of the lips of Mohamed Elomar clones - HERE IN AUSTRALIA, TODAY!!!
Secondly; "Jihad is virtuous!!!" 'Whosoever dies without participating in an expedition (jihad) nor having the intention to do so, dies on a branch of hypocrisy,'
, Mohamed Elomar, quoting ISLAMIC scripture

example; http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434436348/74#74

SITU #2 [the exact reverse]
Firstly; "Jihad is virtuous!!!" "We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
- 'Aussie' moslem, Sheik Feiz Mohammed
Secondly; "ISLAM is peace. ISLAM is a peaceful and tolerant faith." - 'Aussie' moslem, Sheik Feiz Mohammed

example; http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1434436348/75#75

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #78 - Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

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Brian Ross

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #79 - Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #80 - Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:38pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... Roll Eyes

This from a spineless, squishy, unprincipled apologist.

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Brian Ross

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #81 - Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 11:56pm

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 8:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... Roll Eyes

This from a spineless, squishy, unprincipled apologist.

Thanks for reverting to type, Soren. You have no idea how much I've missed your ad hominem attacks. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #82 - Jul 4^th, 2015 at 10:04am

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... Roll Eyes

Yes - the principle is that you discuss differences and use your words and your ability to reason - not your fist or your guns or suicide vests.

That's the privciple we are discussing - and which you miss completely.
You do NOT have to submit to views you disagree withg - but disagreement doesn't authorise your violence, your beheadings and murderous rioting.

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Brian Ross

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #83 - Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:45pm

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 10:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... Roll Eyes

Yes - the principle is that you discuss differences and use your words and your ability to reason - not your fist or your guns or suicide vests.

That's the privciple we are discussing - and which you miss completely.
You do NOT have to submit to views you disagree withg - but disagreement doesn't authorise your violence, your beheadings and murderous rioting.

Amazing how you keep moving the goalposts, Soren, particularly after you've been proven wrong again. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #84 - Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 2:45pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2015 at 10:04am:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:58pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 27^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 26^th, 2015 at 6:37pm:

You are talking tosh again, Brain.
Christianity is the most self-reflecting and self-critical religion there is.

Some parts of Christianity may be, some Christians might be, Soren but remember, we are talking Stereotypes and I wonder how self-reflecting and self-critical George Pell was being when he attempted to prevent the showing of "Piss-Christ" in Melbourne by starting a case of Criminal Blasphemy in the courts? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

If only Muslims could confine themselves to the courts, instead of blowing up, beheading, and machinegunning down their critics.

But you are too stupid to perceive the difference, Brain.

Really? What a shame you can't see when principles are being discussed, Soren... Roll Eyes

Yes - the principle is that you discuss differences and use your words and your ability to reason - not your fist or your guns or suicide vests.

That's the privciple we are discussing - and which you miss completely.
You do NOT have to submit to views you disagree withg - but disagreement doesn't authorise your violence, your beheadings and murderous rioting.

Amazing how you keep moving the goalposts, Soren, particularly after you've been proven wrong again. Roll Eyes

Explain, Brain, I dare you.

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moses

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #85 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:02pm

Karnal wrote Reply #68 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 5:40pm : Quote:

There is no religious justification for killing in the name of jihad alone. There is no justification for "self alienation from normal society", and certainly none for hate speech.

If you can reference otherwise, please do.

Here are some examples:

muslims are to invade and thieve their victims lands and possessions: qur'an 8:41: qur'an 33:27:

A prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer: qur'an 8.67:

Jihad and islamic slaughter:
qur'an 4.95:qur'an 48.17: qur'an 2.216: qur'an 2.244: qur'an 3.142: qur'an 3.151:qur'an 3.157: qur'an 3.158: qur'an 3.169:
qur'an 3.195: qur'an 4.74: qur'an 4.76: qur'an 4.95: qur'an 5.35: qur'an 5.54: qur'an 8.65:qur'an 9.014: qur'an 9.20: qur'an 9.24: qur'an 9.29: qur'an 9.39: qur'an 9.41: qur'an 9.88: qur'an 9.111: qur'an 33.23 qur'an 47.4: qur'an 47.35: qur'an 49.15:qur'an 61.4:
qur'an 61.11: qur'an 66.9:

Hijrah or emigrating to slaughter in the cause of allah:
qur'an 2.218: qur'an 3.195: qur'an 4.100: qur'an 8.72:
qur'an 8.74: qur'an 8.75: qur'an 9.20: qur'an 22.58:

taqiyya and kitman:.qur'an 3.28: qur'an 16.106: qur'an 9.3:
qur'an 66.2: qur'an 2. 225:

muslims commanded to alienate themselves from normal society:,
qur'an 5.51: qur'an 5.80: qur'an 3.28: qur'an 9.23:qur'an 53.29:

hate speech in qur'an:qur'an 98.6: qur'an 8.55:

torture and slaughter of those who cause corruption:
qur'an 5.32: qur'an 5.33:

Who causes corruption so muslims can torture and murder them?
qur'an 2.8: qur'an 2.10: qur'an 2.11: qur'an 2.12: qur'an 3.167:
qur'an 4.88: qur'an 4.89: qur'an 4.138: qur'an 4.145: qur'an 9.68:
qur'an 9.73: qur'an 9.101: qur'an 33.73: qur'an 48.6: qur'an 66.9: O
qur'an 8.67:

The muslims who are setting the agenda (rapists, torturers and mass murderers) certainly believe the above give them an assured place in paradise with a room full of big breasted houris.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95416 Gender:	Re: islam and human sacrifice Reply #86 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:51pm Moses, even.a brief search of the passages you’ve referenced shows the Koran says no such things. I’m.sure you got your list from Jihadwatch or Islamthereliginofpeace, but why don’t you take the time to quote those passages next to the explanations you’ve given. Lets have a little look-see, shall we?
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Yadda

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #87 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:05am

moses,

Thanks for the Koran verses, in post #85.

FIGHTING AGAINST DISBELIEVERS IS AN OBLIGATION TO ALLAH, FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS BELIEF IN ALLAH!

-------- >

Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.
http://quran.com/2/216

"persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

"persecution [of Muslims]" = = disbelievers, resisting the will of local moslems.

"persecution [of Muslims]" = = disbelievers prosecuting moslems with their secular law.

-------- >

They ask you about the sacred month - about fighting therein. Say, "Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah . And fitnah is greater than killing." And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever - for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally.
http://quran.com/2/217

Jihad is lawful, and an obligation to the moslems

-------- >

Indeed, those who have believed and those who have emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah - those expect the mercy of Allah . And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
http://quran.com/2/218

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #88 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 5:12pm

Karnal wrote: Quote:

Moses, even.a brief search of the passages you’ve referenced shows the Koran says no such things.

I’m.sure you got your list from Jihadwatch or Islamthereliginofpeace, but why don’t you take the time to quote those passages next to the explanations you’ve given.

Lets have a little look-see, shall we?

muslims are to invade and thieve their victims lands and possessions: qur'an 8:41: qur'an 33:27:

8:41:And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allâh, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives [of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)], (and also) the orphans, Al-Masâkin (the poor) and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allâh and in that which We sent down to Our slave (Muhammad SAW) on the Day of criterion (between right and wrong), the Day when the two forces met (the battle of Badr) - And Allâh is Able to do all things.

You don't get war booty if you stay peacefully at home

33:27:And He caused you to inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, and a land which you had not trodden (before). And Allâh is Able to do all things.

you certainly can't stay at home peacefully if you're thieving land where you have not trodden.

A prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer: qur'an 8.67:

qur'an 8.67: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made a great slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

muhammad was a blood crazed homicidal psychopath, an inhumane mass murderer

Jihad and islamic slaughter:

qur'an 9.20: Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's cause are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant.

qur'an 9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

qur'an 9.39: Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.

qur'an 9.111: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

qur'an 61.4: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

All the above verses plus every other reference advocate muslims physically murdering people or being killed while trying to slaughter others. (these mass murderers are the highest grade of muslim there is)

Hijrah or emigrating to slaughter in the cause of allah:

qur'an 2.218: Indeed, those who have believed and those who have emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah - those expect the mercy of Allah . And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

qur'an 3.195: And their Lord responded to them, "Never will I allow to be lost the work of [any] worker among you, whether male or female; you are of one another. So those who emigrated or were evicted from their homes or were harmed in My cause or fought or were killed - I will surely remove from them their misdeeds, and I will surely admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow as reward from Allah , and Allah has with Him the best reward."

qur'an 4.100: And whoever emigrates for the cause of Allah will find on the earth many [alternative] locations and abundance. And whoever leaves his home as an emigrant to Allah and His Messenger and then death overtakes him - his reward has already become incumbent upon Allah . And Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

qur'an 8.72: Indeed, those who have believed and emigrated and fought with their wealth and lives in the cause of Allah and those who gave shelter and aided - they are allies of one another. But those who believed and did not emigrate - for you there is no guardianship of them until they emigrate. And if they seek help of you for the religion, then you must help, except against a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty. And Allah is Seeing of what you do.

qur'an 8.74: But those who have believed and emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah and those who gave shelter and aided - it is they who are the believers, truly. For them is forgiveness and noble provision.

qur'an 8.75: And those who believed after [the initial emigration] and emigrated and fought with you - they are of you. But those of [blood] relationship are more entitled [to inheritance] in the decree of Allah . Indeed, Allah is Knowing of all things.

qur'an 9.20:The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives are greater in rank in the sight of Allah . And it is those who are the attainers [of success].

All the above plus more are the backbone of foreign muslims joining IS

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Karnal

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Re: islam and human sacrifice
Reply #89 - Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:29am

Moses, I don't think any of your quotes actually mean what you've said. Take this one:

Quote:

qur'an 8.67: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made a great slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Muhammed is advising his followers not to kill prisoners of war.

Or this one:

Quote:

qur'an 9.20: Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's cause are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant.

How does this translate into Jihad and Islamic slaughter?

Or this one:

Quote:

qur'an 61.4: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

It's about banding together and being a strong team.

Academics have argued that the Koran contains two separate things: instructions on a spiritual path; and the attempt to lay down a social order in a time of unrest (including the rules of war).

The difficulty in the Koran is that these two purposes can conflict. Scholars argue that the rules of war, including things like taking slaves and killing captives relate only to Muhammed's time and place. This is the mainstream interpretation. If you ask a Muslim about these things, he'll most likely explain this to you.

The literalist tradition, including the Saudi Wahabists, takes a much harder view, but they still concede that the Koran describes rules that related specifically to Muhammed's time, and in many cases, only to Muhammed's time.

Arguing that Muslims must slaughter and kill and start wars today is like arguing Jews must kill gentiles and take their land, wives and livestock. There is actually a stronger, far more unequivocal case for this in the Torah.

But - there is a dangerous literalist tendency emerging within some quarters of Islam that is incredibly dangerous - not just to innocent civilians, but to the spiritual path Islam attempts to reveal. This tendency is exploited by political and military players, including most influentially Saudi Arabia and Iran, two oil states competing for control of the Middle East.

I'm not sure that there's a literalist tendency within Islam itself - I'm happy to be swayed either way here. There are movements and sects within Islam that are radically anti-literalist just as there is a huge fundamentalist following that is clearly on the rise.

But this tendency is exploited by political interests. Religious ideologies, it would seem, are far more powerful than the Cold War ideologies they've replaced. The fact that these interests find fertile ground in a warring state is no surprise. Families will do almost anything to protect themselves from militias, including supporting rival militias.

The fact that these interests are finding ground in the West is a huge cause for concern, and something that needs to be tackled. This is a problem most Muslim leaders and clerics want to solve. There is no way the Koran can be used to justify terrorist attacks on innocent civilians. You can point to a vague verse or two about slaying and dying, but there are equivalent verses that condemn this. Islam, like all other religions, holds that murder is a grave sin, as is suicide.

I'd be interested to discuss this with a fundamentalist Muslim who defends suicide bombing. I haven't met one yet, including the notorious Abu.

I'm sorry, Moses, you're good at getting Koran verses off Jihadwatch, but you don't come close to explaining how Muslims can justify these things to themselves.

Twisting quotes and misinterpreting the words of the Koran, of course, only assists the cause.

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« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2015 at 11:45am by Karnal »

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