Australian Politics Forum - Moderate muslims beheading the french

polite_gandalf

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #105 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:10am

And here's FD in the same thread - mocking my position of Islam tolerating true gay love - -but simultaneously not committing to a position. Funny how this "suggestion", that caused so much ridicule by FD at the time, didn't rate a mention here:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 7:08pm:

You are making crap up about Muhammed's command to execute homosexuals being a statement of peace of tolerance of true gay love. Then you are disowning it at the same time as promoting it.

Amazing isn't it? - that we can go from "ooh isn't Gandalf ridiculous for suggesting Islam tolerates gays for being gay" - to 12 months later - "Gandalf suggests that gays should be executed if they flaunt it mardi gras style".

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #106 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:21am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 8:42am:

Have you figured out yet who those Aussie Muslims would be raping and slaughtering if they were no Muslims?

Quote:

He said it's not alright to kill gays for being gays, FD.

Thanks for clarifying Karnal. Can you quote him?

From the same thread FD:

Quote:

And yet it wasn't a call to execute homosexuals. Why do you think he described them in the terms "doing as Lot's people did"? Do you think sodomy was unheard of in pre-islamic times that he had to make this reference? Do you think everyone at that time referred to sodomy as "doing as Lot's people did"? You demand a literal interpretation of the texts - well this is it - in literal terms, he is not calling for homosexuals to be executed, he is calling for people who did "as Lot's people did" to be executed - which included sodomy and debauchery, robbery, rape and generally flaunted God's laws. Its a whole package.

Would you agree thats saying its not alright to kill gays for being gays? Please, feel free to spin this quote beyond all meaning - we all know you want to.

So it is not OK to kill gays, but it is OK if you kill gays, rapists, thieves, debaucherers etc? You are not allowed to discriminate in who you kill?

From the other thread:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

I'm not sure FD.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 1:54pm:

By the description, Muhammad is clearly talking about an act of sodomy, but is it necessarily any act of sodomy? In my view, the case has not been conclusively made.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:40pm:

FD he's obviously talking about sodomy.

But the argument has been made (not by me) that he is only talking about sodomy that is borne out of lust and debauchery - not from genuine love and commitment.

You've got to admit there is a legitimate question about why he refers to it as "anyone doing as Lot's people did" as opposed to simply saying "anyone who commits sodomy"

Also, the quranic verses referring to Lot's people only refers to sodomy in the context of lust, no mention of sodomy in the context of genuine love and devotion.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:43am:

You could argue that the Quran would only ever describe sodomy in negative terms - fair enough.

Its just a point of view though, equally as valid as saying that the Quran deliberately makes a distinction between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" types of sodomy.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

So I ask, if mainstream muslims allow themselves to be fooled by so called "scholars" who take the longest stretch you can imagine in their interpretation of islamic texts to propogate their misogyny and intolerance and call it "islamic law" - I reckon its fair enough to take the same sort of liberties with things like homosexuality. Thats a crude way of putting it, but I hope you get my point.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

The issue here is you taking my argument that The Prophet's ruling on those that did "as Lot's people did" may not necessarily be a ruling against homosexuality per se

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 6:31pm:

I'm quite happy to "own" the argument that The Prophet's ruling there may not necessarily be a ruling against homosexuality per se - like I've been saying all along. Exactly what did you think I was disowning FD?

Have you made up your mind yet Gandalf? Perhaps Muhammed meant you should kill Robin Hood. He was a taker and a giver.

Is it fair for me to take the same sort of liberties with what you say?

This is how you left the other thread:

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 6:47pm:

So you don't actually know? What happened to all your a priori knowledge?

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« Last Edit: Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:27am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french Reply #107 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:41am Are you still finding justification for claiming I "suggested" that gays should be killed for flaunting their sexuality "mardi gras style"? Unbelievable - truly unbelievable FD - just take a look at yourself, honestly.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49402 At my desk.	Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french Reply #108 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:42am Would you like me to quote the relevant post again Gandalf? Are you now saying you have made up your mind on who Muhammed wants you to kill? Or were you just being selective in your choice of previous stances? Perhaps you were merely taking liberties?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #109 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:49am

Just tell me this FD - how did you go from:

a) Silly Gandalf trying to justify Muhammad's command as a statement of gay pride

to 12 months later...

b) Look gay person - sinister Gandalf suggested gays who flaunt their sexuality gay pride should be executed - do you really want to be standing side by side with this monster??

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49402 At my desk.	Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french Reply #110 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:57am You insisted it was not a statement of gay pride. Have you made up your mind yet on whether Muhammed wants you to kill gays? Am I responsible for all the different positions you have taken on the matter?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #111 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:11pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

Have you made up your mind yet on whether Muhammed wants you to kill gays?

Sure - I even quoted you the relevant post - just today.

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

Am I responsible for all the different positions you have taken on the matter?

You are responsible for slandering me with made up crap - made especially worse by your incredible "I can't be expected to know what you were saying" defense.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #112 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:25pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

You insisted it was not a statement of gay pride.

Have you made up your mind yet on whether Muhammed wants you to kill gays?

Am I responsible for all the different positions you have taken on the matter?

Seen at London's gay pride parade:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/30/isis-dildo-flag-london-pride-cnn#img-2

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/30/isis-dildo-flag-london-pride-cnn#img-1

I won't be surprised if the apesh!t starts soon - mocking Mohammed's flag like that.

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Karnal

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #113 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

And here's FD in the same thread - mocking my position of Islam tolerating true gay love - -but simultaneously not committing to a position. Funny how this "suggestion", that caused so much ridicule by FD at the time, didn't rate a mention here:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 7:08pm:

You are making crap up about Muhammed's command to execute homosexuals being a statement of peace of tolerance of true gay love. Then you are disowning it at the same time as promoting it.

Amazing isn't it? - that we can go from "ooh isn't Gandalf ridiculous for suggesting Islam tolerates gays for being gay" - to 12 months later - "Gandalf suggests that gays should be executed if they flaunt it mardi gras style".

Yes, G, but FD spent.those 12 months going through your posts word by word.

He had to come up with something.

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Karnal

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #114 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:58pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 8:42am:

Have you figured out yet who those Aussie Muslims would be raping and slaughtering if they were no Muslims?

Quote:

He said it's not alright to kill gays for being gays, FD.

Thanks for clarifying Karnal. Can you quote him?

Sure can, FD. Gays.. flaunting... Mardi Gras... beheading...Start on the kuffars next... etc. etc. etc.

It’s all there.

You just have to read between the lines.

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Karnal

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #115 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 1:02pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:21am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 10:51am:

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 8:42am:

Have you figured out yet who those Aussie Muslims would be raping and slaughtering if they were no Muslims?

[quote]He said it's not alright to kill gays for being gays, FD.

Thanks for clarifying Karnal. Can you quote him?

From the same thread FD:

Quote:

And yet it wasn't a call to execute homosexuals. Why do you think he described them in the terms "doing as Lot's people did"? Do you think sodomy was unheard of in pre-islamic times that he had to make this reference? Do you think everyone at that time referred to sodomy as "doing as Lot's people did"? You demand a literal interpretation of the texts - well this is it - in literal terms, he is not calling for homosexuals to be executed, he is calling for people who did "as Lot's people did" to be executed - which included sodomy and debauchery, robbery, rape and generally flaunted God's laws. Its a whole package.

Would you agree thats saying its not alright to kill gays for being gays? Please, feel free to spin this quote beyond all meaning - we all know you want to.

So it is not OK to kill gays, but it is OK if you kill gays, rapists, thieves, debaucherers etc? You are not allowed to discriminate in who you kill?

From the other thread:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

I'm not sure FD.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 1:54pm:

By the description, Muhammad is clearly talking about an act of sodomy, but is it necessarily any act of sodomy? In my view, the case has not been conclusively made.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:40pm:

FD he's obviously talking about sodomy.

But the argument has been made (not by me) that he is only talking about sodomy that is borne out of lust and debauchery - not from genuine love and commitment.

You've got to admit there is a legitimate question about why he refers to it as "anyone doing as Lot's people did" as opposed to simply saying "anyone who commits sodomy"

Also, the quranic verses referring to Lot's people only refers to sodomy in the context of lust, no mention of sodomy in the context of genuine love and devotion.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:43am:

You could argue that the Quran would only ever describe sodomy in negative terms - fair enough.

Its just a point of view though, equally as valid as saying that the Quran deliberately makes a distinction between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" types of sodomy.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

So I ask, if mainstream muslims allow themselves to be fooled by so called "scholars" who take the longest stretch you can imagine in their interpretation of islamic texts to propogate their misogyny and intolerance and call it "islamic law" - I reckon its fair enough to take the same sort of liberties with things like homosexuality. Thats a crude way of putting it, but I hope you get my point.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

The issue here is you taking my argument that The Prophet's ruling on those that did "as Lot's people did" may not necessarily be a ruling against homosexuality per se

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 14^th, 2014 at 6:31pm:

I'm quite happy to "own" the argument that The Prophet's ruling there may not necessarily be a ruling against homosexuality per se - like I've been saying all along. Exactly what did you think I was disowning FD?

Looks like you knew G’s opinion/s all along, FD.

Testing us, were you?

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Karnal

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #116 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 1:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

Have you made up your mind yet on whether Muhammed wants you to kill gays?

Sure - I even quoted you the relevant post - just today.

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:57am:

Am I responsible for all the different positions you have taken on the matter?

You are responsible for slandering me with made up crap - made especially worse by your incredible "I can't be expected to know what you were saying" defense.

Freeeedom, innit.

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freediver

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #117 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:00pm

Quote:

Sure - I even quoted you the relevant post - just today.

Would that be a post from 2014, after which you posted several alternative positions? The one where you said it is not OK to kill gays, but it is OK to kill gays and lots of other people? No wonder you refuse to talk about it any more.

Quote:

You are responsible for slandering me with made up crap - made especially worse by your incredible "I can't be expected to know what you were saying" defense.

When did I say that Gandalf?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #118 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:13pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:00pm:

Would that be a post from 2014, after which you posted several alternative positions? The one where you said it is not OK to kill gays, but it is OK to kill gays and lots of other people? No wonder you refuse to talk about it any more.

Remember the golden rule: if in doubt, just invent something slanderous

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Moderate muslims beheading the french
Reply #119 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 6:00pm:

Quote:

Sure - I even quoted you the relevant post - just today.

Would that be a post from 2014, after which you posted several alternative positions? The one where you said it is not OK to kill gays, but it is OK to kill gays and lots of other people? No wonder you refuse to talk about it any more.

Thanks for clarifying, FD. Can you quote him?

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