Australian Politics Forum - Libs say this must be stopped

double plus good Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5693 Gender:	Re: Libs say this must be stopped Reply #60 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:13pm I can't work out what you do-gooders want. These children are in detention because their parents have had their asylum seeker applications rejected. So I suppose you want the kids split from their parents and sent here? Yes or no?
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Phemanderac

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #61 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:14pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:11pm:

well thats good!!!.
i apologise to waaleed and recommend he employ you as his publicist because i havent heard such things and it would be better if we focused on the positive.
this is whast comes naturally to a rightard.
why didnt a leftie start a thread congratulating him on his community spirit.
Dont hide his light under a bushell

Win/Win.

Could be one option. Although another might be to stop relying on the "Aura" and of course your preconceived notions and actually look at some of this stuff at face value.

Or, alternatively, don't make big assumptions based in personal ignorance, you won't need to make so many apologies.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Phemanderac

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #62 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:15pm

double plus good wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:13pm:

I can't work out what you do-gooders want. These children are in detention because their parents have had their asylum seeker applications rejected. So I suppose you want the kids split from their parents and sent here? Yes or no?

Is that the only two options you can think of? Seriously?

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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innocentbystander.

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #63 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:16pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:06pm:

innocentbystander. wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:48pm:

Waleed looks like a terrorist, he should have his citizenship revoked. Cool

This is the comment that most aptly highlights exactly why the decision to revoke ANY citizenship is ludicrous to be left in the hand of any one person.

The huge decision to revoke citizenship can NEVER in a free, democratic and humane society be based on anything so superficial as someone's "opinion" of how the person presents.

The options for decision making are not based on opinion or fantasy (that might work ok in a little backwater forum) they need to be based entirely on fact based in evidence. Hence, the legal system needs to have the first bit of input...

I wouldn't let just anyone make the decision, it would have to be someone responsible, someone that can spot a terrorist from a mile away, someone we all respect and trust and would be comfortable with in making such an important decision, I think we can all agree that that person should be Scott Morrison.

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Phemanderac

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #64 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:20pm

innocentbystander. wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:16pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:06pm:

innocentbystander. wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:48pm:

Waleed looks like a terrorist, he should have his citizenship revoked. Cool

This is the comment that most aptly highlights exactly why the decision to revoke ANY citizenship is ludicrous to be left in the hand of any one person.

The huge decision to revoke citizenship can NEVER in a free, democratic and humane society be based on anything so superficial as someone's "opinion" of how the person presents.

The options for decision making are not based on opinion or fantasy (that might work ok in a little backwater forum) they need to be based entirely on fact based in evidence. Hence, the legal system needs to have the first bit of input...

I wouldn't let just anyone make the decision, it would have to be someone responsible, someone that can spot a terrorist from a mile away, someone we all respect and trust and would be comfortable with in making such an important decision, I think we can all agree that that person should be Scott Morrison.

I am exercising significant restraint in not describing the type of person you are.

No we can't all agree with such an ignorant, ill informed and untrustworthy appointment.

There is NO ONE person in the current political environment who has demonstrated a level of insight, care, honesty, integrity and decency who would qualify to be that one person.

Legal system first, then maybe, with judicial oversight a minister MIGHT be able to act. Providing someone with scruples is looking over their shoulder - hence it probably should never happen.

Treat criminals like we already treat criminals, you know, in prisons....

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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longweekend58

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #65 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:42pm

Resolute wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:36pm:

Its time wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:30pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:27pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:18pm:

Resolute wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:13pm:

Yes, without doubt, Waleed Aly is a maggot

For what reason?

Did you read the article?

Do you understand it?

They support the Lieberals and covering up child abuse is OK by them.

Didn't Labor put them there??

Are you trying to say it was Rudd who stoppped the boats Roll Eyes

Krudd had difficulty controlling his ego, he is incapable of stopping the tap from dripping....

the only thing Rudd could stop was the economy.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #66 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:51pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Resolute wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:57pm:

Hmmmmmm

Should have used an industrial sewing machine......

I don't know whether to feel pity for you, or wish your ilk dead.

Truly saddening that attitudes like yours exist in this country.

Are you a 10 pound pom?

and now you start channeling KAT????

what the hell happened to you???

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #67 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:55pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:48pm:

Good post Phem - as always your analysis is spot on.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:39pm:

It is absolutely astounding that almost anywhere in Australia ALL of the professionals involved are what is referred to as Mandatory reporters - i.e. by law they MUST report issues of child abuse, suspected child abuse and/or neglect to child protection authorities - yet, this change in law from the Federal Government (Supported by the Labor opposition, hence neither team can hold their heads up with any pride), effectively rejects that same basic legal expectation in almost every state or territory in our Country.

Yes this is the crux of it.

is that really true or is the point that they cannot report it to THE MEDIA? there is a big difference and one that has not been discussed.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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aquascoot

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #68 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:02pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:14pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:11pm:

well thats good!!!.
i apologise to waaleed and recommend he employ you as his publicist because i havent heard such things and it would be better if we focused on the positive.
this is whast comes naturally to a rightard.
why didnt a leftie start a thread congratulating him on his community spirit.
Dont hide his light under a bushell

Win/Win.

Could be one option. Although another might be to stop relying on the "Aura" and of course your preconceived notions and actually look at some of this stuff at face value.

Or, alternatively, don't make big assumptions based in personal ignorance, you won't need to make so many apologies.

NO!!.

My point stands and it is this.

commentators like waleed (or the politicians) could promote my sorts of ideas (and some others, including having all school children have a penpal in the middle east)but they DONT (or certainly its rare).
Q and A, the Project...they thrive on the emotional stuff and dont want it to end.
The politicians are the same.

The fighting and anger and pushing hot buttons is what RATES.

doing a show on mustafa teaches his anglo mates mediteranean cooking does not rate.

angry people like that guy on Q and A rate.
the media and the politicians are not the solution. they are fanning the problem.

If , as K say, we have food festivals over ramadan , when is Q and A going to cover that.
and i'll bet they wouldnt be nearly as keen to cover it as some nutbag terrorist fruitcake they give the microphone to.

Waleed and his mates can be part of the solution or part of the problem.
and most of the time, they are self serving parts of the problem and they wont be getting a pat on the back from me and either should Tony Jones or any of the leftie luvvies or rightie haters who use easily solvable problems as emotional footballs

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Phemanderac

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #69 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:48pm:

Good post Phem - as always your analysis is spot on.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:39pm:

It is absolutely astounding that almost anywhere in Australia ALL of the professionals involved are what is referred to as Mandatory reporters - i.e. by law they MUST report issues of child abuse, suspected child abuse and/or neglect to child protection authorities - yet, this change in law from the Federal Government (Supported by the Labor opposition, hence neither team can hold their heads up with any pride), effectively rejects that same basic legal expectation in almost every state or territory in our Country.

Yes this is the crux of it.

is that really true or is the point that they cannot report it to THE MEDIA? there is a big difference and one that has not been discussed.

That is a fair question.

The people they apparently can report to have a demonstrated track record of failure in the very area of acting on serious reports, particularly with regard to child safety.

Just for one moment, consider what it might be like for these children if you would.

It seems to me that if we (as a nation) had even the slightest bit of compassion then firstly, the bill would not have been thought up. Secondly, we would have pre - emptively set up a much safer system (specifically for the children), ideally for whole of family though, because, that simply works best.

Part of the whole problem with our asylum seeker issues/concerns/problems is that it has been overly politicised and, quite frankly, three word slogans and thought bubbles from the thoughtless are not going to resolve it.

The issues are complex so there is NOT going to be a simple, one size fits all solution that can be encompassed by three or four words.

That is a significant part of the problem right there. The very people paid significant amounts of money to administer this stuff, clearly have no capacity to think about it carefully, care to actually do anything more than get re-elected and, are so mind bogglingly devoid of any degree of human integrity that it is actually ok for these children to be harmed in a variety of ways, whilst, presumably in our country's care....

Seriously, how caring are we being right now?

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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longweekend58

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #70 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:48pm:

Good post Phem - as always your analysis is spot on.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:39pm:

It is absolutely astounding that almost anywhere in Australia ALL of the professionals involved are what is referred to as Mandatory reporters - i.e. by law they MUST report issues of child abuse, suspected child abuse and/or neglect to child protection authorities - yet, this change in law from the Federal Government (Supported by the Labor opposition, hence neither team can hold their heads up with any pride), effectively rejects that same basic legal expectation in almost every state or territory in our Country.

Yes this is the crux of it.

is that really true or is the point that they cannot report it to THE MEDIA? there is a big difference and one that has not been discussed.

That is a fair question.

The people they apparently can report to have a demonstrated track record of failure in the very area of acting on serious reports, particularly with regard to child safety.

Just for one moment, consider what it might be like for these children if you would.

It seems to me that if we (as a nation) had even the slightest bit of compassion then firstly, the bill would not have been thought up. Secondly, we would have pre - emptively set up a much safer system (specifically for the children), ideally for whole of family though, because, that simply works best.

Part of the whole problem with our asylum seeker issues/concerns/problems is that it has been overly politicised and, quite frankly, three word slogans and thought bubbles from the thoughtless are not going to resolve it.

The issues are complex so there is NOT going to be a simple, one size fits all solution that can be encompassed by three or four words.

That is a significant part of the problem right there. The very people paid significant amounts of money to administer this stuff, clearly have no capacity to think about it carefully, care to actually do anything more than get re-elected and, are so mind bogglingly devoid of any degree of human integrity that it is actually ok for these children to be harmed in a variety of ways, whilst, presumably in our country's care....

Seriously, how caring are we being right now?

but back to my point again. we are NOT undermining the mandatory reporting system for children because it in fact operates the same way for the rest of the country. Teachers etc are required to report abuse BUT they are specifically forbidden from mentioning it to anyone else other than a designated authority.

so if this 'silencing' thing is simply preventing people reporting to the media then it would very easily explain why labor supported it and others, simply because it is NOTHING like what is being described here.

the whole children in detention issue is complex and emotive, but apparently also filled with lies, half-truths and misdirection. and no, I am NOT talking about this govt or the previous one. Bottom line is the govt is caught between a rock and a hard place. there are no easy solutions.

but this thread is largely a lie.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Phemanderac

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #71 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:14pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:14pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:11pm:

well thats good!!!.
i apologise to waaleed and recommend he employ you as his publicist because i havent heard such things and it would be better if we focused on the positive.
this is whast comes naturally to a rightard.
why didnt a leftie start a thread congratulating him on his community spirit.
Dont hide his light under a bushell

Win/Win.

Could be one option. Although another might be to stop relying on the "Aura" and of course your preconceived notions and actually look at some of this stuff at face value.

Or, alternatively, don't make big assumptions based in personal ignorance, you won't need to make so many apologies.

NO!!.

My point stands and it is this.

commentators like waleed (or the politicians) could promote my sorts of ideas (and some others, including having all school children have a penpal in the middle east)but they DONT (or certainly its rare).
Q and A, the Project...they thrive on the emotional stuff and dont want it to end.
The politicians are the same.

The fighting and anger and pushing hot buttons is what RATES.

doing a show on mustafa teaches his anglo mates mediteranean cooking does not rate.

angry people like that guy on Q and A rate.
the media and the politicians are not the solution. they are fanning the problem.

If , as K say, we have food festivals over ramadan , when is Q and A going to cover that.
and i'll bet they wouldnt be nearly as keen to cover it as some nutbag terrorist fruitcake they give the microphone to.

Waleed and his mates can be part of the solution or part of the problem.
and most of the time, they are self serving parts of the problem and they wont be getting a pat on the back from me and either should Tony Jones or any of the leftie luvvies or rightie haters who use easily solvable problems as emotional footballs

NO!

You see it is the job of the community to do everything that you outlined there. It is the job of the media to report when we and those who are the administrators (you know, the Gubmint) are getting it wrong.

Sure, it is also nice to have some good news stories, I would love that.

However, my point still stands very clearly, your aura reading has failed you (on this and other occasions).

ABC national also had a good program on the other day, which if I had not been on the road for the day I would have missed - all about the various foods of Ramadan...

Now I note in another post you mentioned "Muslim" foods - I thought this curious at the time, because there is no one specific "Muslim" culture. Have you ever had a kebab? Have you tried baclava? Have you eaten Indonesian food, or Malaysian food - careful you may have already experiences "Muslim" food.... They are just a few examples, some of which, in my ignorance about Islam may not be appropriate to Ramadan, I admit. However, the point is, you made a clearly ill informed comment regarding "Muslim" food - once again, aura reading failure?

Part of the media's job (although clearly Telegraph and few other fish wrappers do not understand this principal) to inform the public and to shine the light of public scrutiny on ALL the actions of Government, Business and Community.... Particularly, the questionable ones that people should not, in a civilised society at least, be allowed to get away with - hence, good news stories are, at best, just an add on.

Feel free to get proactive with some community building.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Kat

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #72 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:16pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:51pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Resolute wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:57pm:

Hmmmmmm

Should have used an industrial sewing machine......

I don't know whether to feel pity for you, or wish your ilk dead.

Truly saddening that attitudes like yours exist in this country.

Are you a 10 pound pom?

and now you start channeling KAT????

what the hell happened to you???

Putting-up with idiots does that to you.

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Phemanderac

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #73 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:18pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:10pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:55pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:48pm:

Good post Phem - as always your analysis is spot on.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 5:39pm:

It is absolutely astounding that almost anywhere in Australia ALL of the professionals involved are what is referred to as Mandatory reporters - i.e. by law they MUST report issues of child abuse, suspected child abuse and/or neglect to child protection authorities - yet, this change in law from the Federal Government (Supported by the Labor opposition, hence neither team can hold their heads up with any pride), effectively rejects that same basic legal expectation in almost every state or territory in our Country.

Yes this is the crux of it.

is that really true or is the point that they cannot report it to THE MEDIA? there is a big difference and one that has not been discussed.

That is a fair question.

The people they apparently can report to have a demonstrated track record of failure in the very area of acting on serious reports, particularly with regard to child safety.

Just for one moment, consider what it might be like for these children if you would.

It seems to me that if we (as a nation) had even the slightest bit of compassion then firstly, the bill would not have been thought up. Secondly, we would have pre - emptively set up a much safer system (specifically for the children), ideally for whole of family though, because, that simply works best.

Part of the whole problem with our asylum seeker issues/concerns/problems is that it has been overly politicised and, quite frankly, three word slogans and thought bubbles from the thoughtless are not going to resolve it.

The issues are complex so there is NOT going to be a simple, one size fits all solution that can be encompassed by three or four words.

That is a significant part of the problem right there. The very people paid significant amounts of money to administer this stuff, clearly have no capacity to think about it carefully, care to actually do anything more than get re-elected and, are so mind bogglingly devoid of any degree of human integrity that it is actually ok for these children to be harmed in a variety of ways, whilst, presumably in our country's care....

Seriously, how caring are we being right now?

but back to my point again. we are NOT undermining the mandatory reporting system for children because it in fact operates the same way for the rest of the country. Teachers etc are required to report abuse BUT they are specifically forbidden from mentioning it to anyone else other than a designated authority.

so if this 'silencing' thing is simply preventing people reporting to the media then it would very easily explain why labor supported it and others, simply because it is NOTHING like what is being described here.

the whole children in detention issue is complex and emotive, but apparently also filled with lies, half-truths and misdirection. and no, I am NOT talking about this govt or the previous one. Bottom line is the govt is caught between a rock and a hard place. there are no easy solutions.

but this thread is largely a lie.

Nope, we are not undermining the child reporting system, our Government is doing it's absolute best to totally ignore it in this specific example.

The lie is from those of you who defend this Government's actions, effectively throwing these children to the wolves.

I still stand by supporting the 40 or so workers on the ground who have taken the issue up to the PM - they are the only people in the right in this. How sad, 40 or so in a country with around 24 Million people living in it.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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longweekend58

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Re: Libs say this must be stopped
Reply #74 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:19pm

Kat wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 7:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 6:51pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Resolute wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:01pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 3:57pm:

Hmmmmmm

Should have used an industrial sewing machine......

I don't know whether to feel pity for you, or wish your ilk dead.

Truly saddening that attitudes like yours exist in this country.

Are you a 10 pound pom?

and now you start channeling KAT????

what the hell happened to you???

Putting-up with idiots does that to you.

you are the angriest person on here. maybe your one hour per week bike job is all you aspire to. it would explain so much.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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