Australian Politics Forum - did Muhammed err?

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #135 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 10:59am

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 10:39am:

Yes,this is the first one I came across
www.altafsir.com

Click on The Tafsirs then enter 66 for sura then verses 1-5.

Now click on the tafsir drop down menu and choose Asbab Al-Nuzul. It cites 3 out of 4 versions referring to the honey story. Including one in which Ibn Abbas (one of the companions) is quoted as saying this was the correct one for 66:1-5.

Its ok if you genuinely missed it the first time Baron - but now you know that altafsir.com mentions both - and it is in no way saying its definitely only one or the other as you inferred before.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 18629
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #136 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:10am

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 10:39am:

What is Abu Dawud referring to with taste her honey in this verse,you have avoided this question for some reason?
Quote:

The $Profit Replied-
She is not lawful for the first husband until she tastes the honey of the other husband and he tastes her honey
sunnah.com/abudawud/13/135

Why are you avoiding this question Gandalf,is it an inconvenient truth?

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #137 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:31am

Actually I addressed it some posts back.

Remember when I said the argument over whether or not honey is a metaphor for sex is completely irrelevant? Please pay attention - you are not going to get any cheap shots about evasive muslims here I'm afraid.

Now speaking of evasion... how about the Asbab Al-Nuzul tafsir now - or Ibn Kathir I referenced earlier? Are you going to acknowledge the existence of those tafsirs - or are you going to keep pretending the verse is definitely 100% about the coptic slave? Would you call such a stance dishonest Baron?

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49321 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #138 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:44am Quote: Please pay attention - you are not going to get any cheap shots about evasive muslims here I'm afraid. I certainly hope not. How did Muhammed err?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 18629
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #139 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:31am:

Actually I addressed it some posts back.

Remember when I said the argument over whether or not honey is a metaphor for sex is completely irrelevant?

Now speaking of evasion... how about the Asbab Al-Nuzul tafsir now -

You did not address you dismissed it as irrelevant because it contradicted your nonsense.
Do you think people reading abu dawud will see honey is a metaphor for sex?

altafsir.com Lists al Jalalayn as well as Ibn Abbas as being about Maria the copt,al wahidi mentions both.

You only have one out of 3 that mentions both incidents, the majority say it was about maria the copt and even your version mentions maria the copt.

You also avoided Bukharis contradiction on whether this happened at Zainab's house or Hafsa's house, which house did it occur in or was bukhari referring to 2 separate incidents?

I have always said muslims cannot agree on anything from the niqab to Islamic terror despite the fact the quran claims islam has been perfected.

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #140 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 12:28pm

freediver wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:44am:

I certainly hope not. How did Muhammed err?

By being human - good enough?

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:48am:

ou did not address you dismissed it as irrelevant because it contradicted your nonsense.
Do you think people reading abu dawud will see honey is a metaphor for sex?

I addressed it by saying its irrelevant. Not addressing it would be not saying anything. But happy to go with the honey=sex metaphor, it makes not one iota of difference to my point. The issue is not about honey vs sex, the issue is about Hafsah Muhammad's wife vs Mary the sex slave.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:48am:

You only have one out of 3 that mentions both incidents, the majority say it was about maria the copt and even your version mentions maria the copt.

No, Al Wahidi gives three separate narrations supporting the honey story - one for the coptic slave story.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:48am:

You also avoided Bukharis contradiction on whether this happened at Zainab's house or Hafsa's house, which house did it occur in or was bukhari referring to 2 separate incidents?

Ah. So tell me Baron - is your argument that 66:1-5 is definitely 100% about Mary the Coptic sex slave based on what altafsir and other "reputable" muslims say - or is it that there is actually a great deal of disagreement? Its about time you adopted a coherent position Baron. Asking a lot though I know.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96344	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #141 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 2:14pm Now now, G, you and I both know that’s not the right answer. FD wants you to say that Muhammed was a paedophile killer who tortured thatJew for his gold.and killed 600 prisoners in a day. Tell FD that, and he’ll never ask you another question again.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49321 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #142 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 2:40pm Quote: By being human - good enough? That was a mistake? What should he have been? A goat? Quote: The issue is not about honey vs sex, the issue is about Hafsah Muhammad's wife vs Mary the sex slave. Was this a real or an imaginary sex slave?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96344	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #143 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 4:08pm Questions questions. Food for thought, eh?
Back to top	IP Logged

wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #144 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 4:44pm whats most funny is you got a atheist trying to interpret islam.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49321 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #145 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 6:43pm What do you think Wally? Did Muhammed err?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96344	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #146 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 7:18pm wally1 wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 4:44pm: whats most funny is you got a atheist trying to interpret islam. You don’t think that’s possible?
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49321 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #147 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 7:46pm Apparently you can't interpret Islam unless you speak God's language. Arabic.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 18629
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #148 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 8:44pm

wally1 wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 4:44pm:

whats most funny is you got a atheist trying to interpret islam.

PMSL at muslims who need ahadith which were written a couple of hundred years after the quran to interpret what should be a simple book.

Does your imaginary friend in the sky allah mention books by abu dawud or bukhari in the quran?

I like this verse-
quran.com/4/82

Is Alcohol allowed or do I have to read some book other than the quran to decide if it's haram
quran.com/16/67

I reckon you need an IQ of less than 80 to be a muslim.

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #149 - Jul 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am freediver wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 7:46pm: Apparently you can't interpret Islam unless you speak God's language. Arabic. Is gods language arabic?
Back to top	IP Logged

Poll
Question: Quran 66/1-5 context
Gandalf is right it's about honey 3 (42.9%) Baron is right it's about banging his slave 4 (57.1%) Total votes: 7 « Created by: Baronvonrort on: Jul 7^th, 2015 at 6:17pm »