Australian Politics Forum - did Muhammed err?

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #15 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:40pm Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:23pm: Islam is Mohammedanism - everything he did is Islamic by definition. I disagree.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #16 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:41pm Gandalf, did Muhammed err?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #17 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:43pm you're doing this deliberately aren't you? Hows your google the medina constitution project going?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #18 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:48pm According to wikipedia, there are several different versions and the date is uncertain. Did Muhammed err?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #19 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 9:14pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:40pm: Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:23pm: Islam is Mohammedanism - everything he did is Islamic by definition. I disagree. Take Mohammed out of Islam - what is left? Nothing. You are a Mohammedan, Gandy.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #20 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 9:40pm Gandalf all your talk about reform would be a lot easier to take seriously if you didn't run away from these sorts of questions. Was your intention to make Islam good and not tell anyone about it?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21868
A cat with a view

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #21 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:38am

YT tutorials about the real Mohammed, and his beliefs and his values....
[an assessment of ISLAM, Mohammed, etc, in English, by an Arabic speaker]

41 Muhammad the Sinful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmlqXGqizN0

53 Allah & his Aposle Know Best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm4BZowsOEw

67 Dilemma of Muhammadan Muslims
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZISKPBtMP4

161 Muhammad & Allah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYw-JeHTwvw

163 Muhammad the Humble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5VsWJSKwjo

190 Muhammad's Characteristics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BViKF5N27P4

If you have the time, these tutorials are well worth the listen.

http://www.al-rassooli.com/blog/

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #22 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 10:44am

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 9:40pm:

Gandalf all your talk about reform would be a lot easier to take seriously if you didn't run away from these sorts of questions. Was your intention to make Islam good and not tell anyone about it?

Sorry FD, I'm still reeling over you asking me a question that was so clearly answered in the post that you quoted in the OP - and you even highlighted.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #23 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:40pm: Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 12:23pm: Islam is Mohammedanism - everything he did is Islamic by definition. I disagree. What did he do that was un-Islamic?
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49308
At my desk.

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #24 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:23pm

You conceded the possibility that he erred, which is not something I have seen a Muslim do before. I hope you can appreciate the apparent significance of this. You did not say that he erred - either in the context of the discussion that quote came from or any other context.

But if it helps, I will move on to the next question. I am surprised you did not see this coming, given your ability to tell what I am really saying from my questions.

How did he err?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:32pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18626
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #25 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:37am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

The Koran does not record, that Allah found fault with Mohammed, EVER! [if i am wrong, .....please direct me to a single Koran verse, where Mohammed is ever cautioned or reprimanded, for his behaviour, by Allah.]

66:1

O Prophet, why do you prohibit [yourself from] what Allah has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Was that verse in relation to $Profit Mo getting busted porking his Coptic Christian sex slave Maria by his wives and promising he will not do it again?

When he got caught porking her again Allah was there just in the nick of time to save him with a revelation saying sex slaves are halal.

Quote:

The messenger of Allah had a female slave with whom he had intercourse,but Aisha and Hafsa would not leave him alone until he said that she was forbidden for him,then Allah revealed-
O Prophet,why did you forbid yourself that which allah has allowed to you.
sunnah.com/nasai/36/21

That is the context of 66/1
quran.com/66/1

By that verse we can say Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy approves of muslims having slaves and having sex with them?

Did Maria his Coptic Christian sex slave give $Profit Mo his only son Ibrahim who died before he reached 2 years of age?

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #26 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 2:06pm

Baron there are two contradictory versions of that revelation and scholars are unanimous as to which one is authentic and which one is not. No surprises which one you chose Roll Eyes

Here is Yusuf Ali on the version that is overwhelmingly regarded as authentic:

Quote:

Once it so happened that he stayed longer than usual at the quarters of Zaynab bint Jahsh, for she had received from somewhere some honey which the Holy Prophet liked very much. 'At this', says Aisha, 'I felt jealous, and I, Hafsah, Sawda and Safiyah agreed among ourselves that when he visits us each of us would tell him that a peculiar odour came from his mouth as a result of what he had eaten, for we knew that he was particularly sensitive to offensive smells". So when his wives hinted at it, he vowed that he would never again use honey. Thereupon these verses were revealed reminding him that he should not declare to himself unlawful that which Allah had made lawful to him.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #27 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 3:10pm

I love these 'just in time, as needed', self-serving revelations:

Quote:

Thereupon these verses were revealed reminding him that he should not declare to himself unlawful that which Allah had made lawful to him.

From an eternally unchanged book, of course. Allah eternally foresaw that Mohammed will swear off honey to please the ladies and pulled him up straight away when it happened.

The OK to marry his stepson's wife was also revealed just in time to calm the scandalised Arabs.

Back to top

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18626
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #28 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 3:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 2:06pm:

Baron there are two contradictory versions of that revelation and scholars are unanimous as to which one is authentic and which one is not. No surprises which one you chose Roll Eyes

Here is Yusuf Ali on the version that is overwhelmingly regarded as authentic:

I chose the one that is graded sahih,the scholars all say sahih ahadith are authentic,i even cited the verse as evidence.

Since when did sahih ahadith become not authentic Gandalf?

If you are quoting yusef ali that would be the quran, what does he say in his translation of 66/1?
quran.com/66/1

You are starting to be like falah in posting uncited nonsense.

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #29 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 6:09pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 3:54pm:

I chose the one that is graded sahih,the scholars all say sahih ahadith are authentic,i even cited the verse as evidence.

Since when did sahih ahadith become not authentic Gandalf?

The version I gave is sahih Baron - I guess your wiki-islam site that you are spoon-fed from didn't mention that. Its from Bukhari, Dawoud and Muslim - the three most sahih sources.

Here you go...

Quote:

The Prophet (ﷺ) used to stay (for a period) in the house of Zainab bint Jahsh (one of the wives of the Prophet ) and he used to drink honey in her house. Hafsa and I decided that when the Prophet (ﷺ) entered upon either of us, she would say, "I smell in you the bad smell of Maghafir (a bad smelling raisin). Have you eaten Maghafir?" When he entered upon one of us, she said that to him. He replied (to her), "No, but I have drunk honey in the house of Zainab bint Jahsh, and I will never drink it again." Then the following verse was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you?. ..(up to) If you two (wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) turn in repentance to Allah.' (66.1-4) The two were `Aisha and Hafsa And also the Statement of Allah: 'And (Remember) when the Prophet (ﷺ) disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives!' (66.3) i.e., his saying, "But I have drunk honey." Hisham said: It also meant his saying, "I will not drink anymore, and I have taken an oath, so do not inform anybody of that."

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/83/68

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Poll
Question: Quran 66/1-5 context
Gandalf is right it's about honey 3 (42.9%) Baron is right it's about banging his slave 4 (57.1%) Total votes: 7 « Created by: Baronvonrort on: Jul 7^th, 2015 at 6:17pm »