Australian Politics Forum - did Muhammed err?

LifeOrDeath

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Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #300 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:32pm

You said that you are not aware of any of his errors, apparently through a combined process of historical filtering and selective ignorance of the Islamic texts. Do you care whether this is correct?

On what basis, other than faith, do you know this to be true?

I am not asking whether you are correct about Muhammed making errors, but whether you are correct that the actions you are aware of exclude any such errors. Do you think it matters?

The questions are pretty straight forward why all the dramatics answering them ?

It seems very childish and boring.

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #301 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:32pm Quote: Know what to be true FD? That the actions of Muhammed of which you are aware do not contain any of the mistakes that Muhammed made. Quote: How many times have I said I don't know the entire historical record. Enough to get me to rephrase the question so that you might be capable of answering.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #302 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:02pm freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:32pm: That the actions of Muhammed of which you are aware do not contain any of the mistakes that Muhammed made. Sorry, doesn't make sense to me. Pretend I'm really really dumb
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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #303 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:03pm Most people already do.
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Soren

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Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #304 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:08pm:

Perhaps if I write it more slowly:

b e c a u s e h e w a s h u m a n.

Know you of any humans who don't make mistakes? Neither do I.

What mistakes did he make?

Other than declaring himself God's final prophet.

How the hell would a man like Mohamed know Allah's mind and intentions and especially that Allah's intention - Allah who is otherwise unfathomable - was that this man be his final messenger?

It is so stupid and illiterate that only stupid and illiterate people would fall for it. It is ludicrous.

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #305 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:28pm Good luck getting a comprehensive response, if any, you are not Freediver.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96333	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #306 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:38pm Karnal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 6:30pm: freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 6:27pm: Do you care whether the actions of Muhammed that you are aware of include any errors? Do you care whether stuff you say about Muhammed includes porkies, FD? So far, you haven’t said. Oh, you didn’t answer. Questions, eh?
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freediver

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Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #307 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:32pm:

That the actions of Muhammed of which you are aware do not contain any of the mistakes that Muhammed made.

Sorry, doesn't make sense to me.

Pretend I'm really really dumb

Forget about 'the entire historical record' of Muhammed. Focus on the bits you know about. Do they document any of Muhammed's mistakes? If no, how do you know they do not?

So far you appear to be implying the answer is no, and that it happened through a combination of historical filtering by perfectly biased followers of Muhammed, and your lack of awareness of the entire record which may in fact have let some of his mistakes get passed down through history.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #308 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:41pm Karnal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:38pm: Do you care whether stuff you say about Muhammed includes porkies, FD? So far, you haven’t said. Oh, you didn’t answer. Questions, eh? More useless posts. The islam section has bitten the dust.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #309 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 9:47pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:41pm:

Focus on the bits you know about. Do they document any of Muhammed's mistakes?

You still ask me that - even though you repeatedly point out that I don't know of any mistakes (apart from the one in the Quran). Does the question seem redundant to you?

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:41pm:

If no, how do you know they do not?

I don't.

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:41pm:

So far you appear to be implying the answer is no, and that it happened through a combination of historical filtering by perfectly biased followers of Muhammed, and your lack of awareness of the entire record which may in fact have let some of his mistakes get passed down through history.

try FD, I mean really try and understand it for how unbelievably mundanely simple it really is:

- the historical record might be full of mistakes, if it is, then it makes sense
- my limited knowledge of the ahadith is that they are favourable towards the Prophet - again no surprise whatsoever
- neither of the above 2 have anything to do with faith.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #310 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 9:57pm Oh My Goodness.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #311 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 10:19pm Quote: I don't. Next question - do you care whether any of the documented actions are mistakes on the part of Muhammed? Do other Muslims care?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #312 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 7:28am you mean this wasn't a bit of a giveaway?... polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 9:47pm: - the historical record might be full of mistakes, if it is, then it makes sense
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96333	Re: did Muhammed err? Reply #313 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 10:09am freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 10:19pm: Quote: I don't. Next question - But FD, you haven't answered my question yet. It's really easy. Do you want to give it a stab? We wouldn't want Matty losing confidence in your excellent answering skills.
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freediver

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Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #314 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 12:38pm

How is it that in all their efforts to interpret the words and deeds of Muhammed, and to distance themselves from the 'bad' Muslims who interpret them a bit too literally, it never seems to enter into the debate that perhaps the words and deeds we know about might include some of the mistakes Muslims are supposed to be able to freely acknowledge?

Even when it comes to Muhammed murdering 800 innocent people, you will try to build a contextual wall around it to deprive yourself of the option (burden?) of repeating his example, but you will not consider the possibility that it was just plain wrong.

Something just doesn't make sense. It's like I am the only one to have ever considered this.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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