Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll Poll
Question: Quran 66/1-5 context

Gandalf is right it's about honey    
  3 (42.9%)
Baron is right it's about banging his slave    
  4 (57.1%)




Total votes: 7
« Created by: Baronvonrort on: Jul 7th, 2015 at 6:17pm »

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 23
Send Topic Print
did Muhammed err? (Read 16576 times)
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #60 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:56am
 
|dev|null wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 8:03pm:
Soren wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 8:01pm:
|dev|null wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 7:44pm:
Gandalf, I think it's time you gave up on this lot.  They aren't going to reform.  They aren't interested in anything other than slamming Islam, Muslims and you and your compatriots.

Their minds are closed and will forever remain closed.  Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin

Which parts of Islam is your mind (if mind is the word I want in your case) open and receptive to, Tits?




I don't have to have to like Islam Soren. 

Well, then you are like me insofar as neither of us likes Islam.  But unlike you you, I am not afraid to say it and to also say why i don't like it.

But that's now a crime: you can dislike it but you mustn't say so or say why.

You are a fool.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Baronvonrort
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 18631
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #61 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:23am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:16am:
I have cited you four scholars who argue that 66:1-5 refers to the honey story, and that the sex slave narration is unreliable - including the very scholar who recorded the sex slave story. Even the Yusuf Ali notes on 66:1 (the most universally accepted English translation) states that its the honey story.

Can you cite a single Islamic scholar that agrees with you that 66:1-5 is about the sex slave? Yes or no Baron - its an exceedingly simply question.


Yusef Ali does not mention honey in his translation of 66/1.
quran.com/66/1

Are muslims claiming allah intervened in Mo's life with threats of divorce and punishing them by not having sex with them for one month over honey,honey does not smell bad so your hadiths are bullshit.

Perhaps honey is a term for something else?
Quote:
The messenger of allah was asked about a man who divorced his wife three times,and she married another who entered upon her,but divorced her before having intercourse with her,whether she was lawful for the former husband.
The Profit replied
She is not lawful for the first husband until she tastes the honey of the other husband and he tastes her honey
sunnah.com/abudawud/13/135


AbuDawud mentions honey in relation to sex that must be inconvenient for you gandalf

I find it amusing muslims have to use books written hundreds of years after the quran with no authority from allah to translate a simple verse like 66/1

Back to top
 

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49321
At my desk.
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #62 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:26am
 
I think it was a euphemism for sex.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #63 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:51am
 
Everyone take note of Baron's evasion. He cannot answer a simple yes/no question.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:23am:
Yusef Ali does not mention honey in his translation of 66/1.


I said the notes in his translation you goose  Roll Eyes

Its note 5529 if you really must know - I have it right here in front of me.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:23am:
Are muslims claiming allah intervened in Mo's life with threats of divorce and punishing them by not having sex with them for one month over honey,honey does not smell bad so your hadiths are bullshit.


This is Baron self imploding  Grin
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96347
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #64 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:01am
 
Soren wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 8:56am:
|dev|null wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 8:03pm:
Soren wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 8:01pm:
|dev|null wrote on Jul 6th, 2015 at 7:44pm:
Gandalf, I think it's time you gave up on this lot.  They aren't going to reform.  They aren't interested in anything other than slamming Islam, Muslims and you and your compatriots.

Their minds are closed and will forever remain closed.  Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin

Which parts of Islam is your mind (if mind is the word I want in your case) open and receptive to, Tits?




I don't have to have to like Islam Soren. 

Well, then you are like me insofar as neither of us likes Islam.  But unlike you you, I am not afraid to say it and to also say why i don't like it.



Quoting the poetess again, old boy. I don't like it.

It has something to do with the beards, no?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Baronvonrort
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 18631
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #65 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:02am
 
Abu Dawud mentioned honey in relation to sex how are you going to spin that one Gandalf?

Still waiting for you to spin that one gandalf



Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:28am by Baronvonrort »  

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96347
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #66 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:02am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:26am:
I think it was a euphemism for sex.


Definitely.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #67 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:04am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:26am:
I think it was a euphemism for sex.


The two ahadith are contradictory. One talks about a visit to Mary the coptic slave, the other talks about a visit to his wife Zaynab bint Jaysh. Scholars are unanimous in agreement that verse 66:1-5 refers to the latter account, and that the former is an unreliable narration.

I have given Baron the opportunity to provide a shred of scholarly evidence to demonstrate that any Islamic school or scholar agrees with his version. Usually Baron tries to support his prejudiced views with some supposedly reputable Islamic scholar - often the islamqa guy from Saudi Arabia (always with a little spiel about how qualified he is). Now, based on his last post he seems to be attempting to ridicule Islamic scholarship as somehow irrelevant.

Baron's double standards are on display for all to see.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #68 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:10am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:02am:
Can you cite that 5529 from quran.com I cannot see it or do you expect us to take your word for it?


You're a smacking genius Baron - quran.com doesn't contain the footnotes of Yusuf Ali. My book does.

But do you know what I just did right now? I googled "yusuf ali footnote 5529". Here is the very first hit:

http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif/yusufali/

you'll find footnote 5529 about 3/4 way down. (reccommend ctrl+f - "5529")

How pathetic can you get Baron. Feel free to keep embarrassing yourself, its hilarious.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Baronvonrort
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 18631
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #69 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:10am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:04am:
I have given Baron the opportunity to provide a shred of scholarly evidence to demonstrate that any Islamic school or scholar agrees with his version. Usually Baron tries to support his prejudiced views with some supposedly reputable Islamic scholar - often the islamqa guy from Saudi Arabia (always with a little spiel about how qualified he is). Now, based on his last post he seems to be attempting to ridicule Islamic scholarship as somehow irrelevant.

Baron's double standards are on display for all to see.


Gandalf is avoiding the fact abudawud mentions honey in relation to sex,how are you going to spin Muhammad mentioning tasting her honey Gandalf?

What smells worse bee honey or her honey Gandalf?


Back to top
 

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
IP Logged
 
Baronvonrort
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 18631
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #70 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:19am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:10am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:02am:
Can you cite that 5529 from quran.com I cannot see it or do you expect us to take your word for it?


You're a smacking genius Baron - quran.com doesn't contain the footnotes of Yusuf Ali. My book does.

But do you know what I just did right now? I googled "yusuf ali footnote 5529". Here is the very first hit:

http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif/yusufali/

you'll find footnote 5529 about 3/4 way down. (reccommend ctrl+f - "5529")

How pathetic can you get Baron. Feel free to keep embarrassing yourself, its hilarious.


how convenient quran.com doesn't have this footnote eh Gandalf.
Why do translators have to put footnotes on translations is the translation insufficient despite allah saying he perfected islam in 5/3.
quran.com/5/3

Why would $Profit Mo stay away from his wives for 29 days and pork maria the Coptic slave during this time if it was about eating honey.
$Profit Mo stayed away from his wives for 29 days to punish them over whinging about his porking of maria.

You still haven't explained why abudawud refers to tasting her honey in relation to sex.


Back to top
 

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #71 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:20am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:10am:
Gandalf is avoiding the fact abudawud mentions honey in relation to sex


Goodnes Baron - how about thats not the faarking point?

The point is you were trying to argue that 66:1-5 refers to Muhammad wanting to bang a sex slave - remember?

Now you are trying to wriggle out of that.

Here's another question you can slime away from: which hadith does Abu Dawud mention - and only mention? (I'll give you a hint - its *NOT* the sex slave one). Do you think Abu Dawud agreed with absolutely everyone that the sex slave hadith was unreliable? Take your time Baron.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #72 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:25am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:19am:
how convenient quran.com doesn't have this footnote eh Gandalf.
Why do translators have to put footnotes on translations is the translation insufficient despite allah saying he perfected islam in 2/85


Wait Baron - are you denying the footnote exists, or ridiculing Yusuf Ali for making the footnote? - make up your mind please.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:19am:
Why would $Profit Mo stay away from his wives for 29 days and pork maria the Coptic slave during this time if it was about eating honey.
$Profit Mo stayed away from his wives for 29 days to punish them over whinging about his porking of maria


Just a guess, but maybe because you are conflating two completely different, and contradictory accounts. You do realise that the Bukhari hadith - you know the one that every Islamic scholar believes to be the context of 66:1-5 - is has nothing to do with any coptic sex slaves right Baron?
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Baronvonrort
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 18631
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #73 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:26am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:20am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:10am:
Gandalf is avoiding the fact abudawud mentions honey in relation to sex


Goodnes Baron - how about thats not the faarking point?

The point is you were trying to argue that 66:1-5 refers to Muhammad wanting to bang a sex slave - remember?

Now you are trying to wriggle out of that.

Here's another question you can slime away from: which hadith does Abu Dawud mention - and only mention? (I'll give you a hint - its *NOT* the sex slave one). Do you think Abu Dawud agreed with absolutely everyone that the sex slave hadith was unreliable? Take your time Baron.


abudawud mentioning honey in relation to sex is a point Gandalf,you are trying to wriggle out of that one everyone can see that.

66/1-5 is about banging his sex slave maria the copt,do you think the threats of divorce were over honey,is that a trivial thing to divorce all your wives and replace them with obedient virgins over honey?
Back to top
 

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: did Muhammed err?
Reply #74 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:40am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 10:26am:
abudawud mentioning honey in relation to sex is a point Gandalf,you are trying to wriggle out of that one everyone can see that.


Its a point - and an irrelevant one.

But if this is you acknowledging that 66:1-5 does not refer to the coptic sex slave, then we're making progress. If you are now saying that the narration is a metaphor for some of The Prophet's wives being jealous of him having sex with another one of his wives (ie not a coptic sex slave) - then I'm fine with that.

Just so long as you are abandoning your BS about 66:1-5 referring to Muhammad wanting to have sex with a sex slave against the wishes of his wives. So are you abandoning that now Baron?
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 23
Send Topic Print