Australian Politics Forum - Treachery thy name is beliefs...

Phemanderac

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Treachery thy name is beliefs...
Jul 5^th, 2015 at 1:01pm

So, personally, I think people will always find "causes" or other people's ideas to interpret, reinterpret and misinterpret in order to justify their own heinous crimes against humanity.

It seems to be consistently argued that this is somehow ONLY the people of the Islamic faith....

Well then, some choice little snippets....

"Deuteronomy 20:17New International Version (NIV)

17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Footnotes:

Deuteronomy 20:17 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the Lord, often by totally destroying them."

Completely destroy them? Can there honestly be any doubt about what that means?

Oh dear.

It gets worse, cannibalism would also seem to be "God's will"...

"King James Bible
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

That was a revelation I must say! Literally.

So, it would seem this concept of spreading the word by violence is not the sole preview of Islam. Given, it is reasonable to suggest that not ALL Christians behave in the ways they are directed to by the holy word I am more than a little bemused that, apparently the very similarly developed faith of Islam (apologies for any offense to Christians or Muslims, but, as an outsider, I do not recognise a huge philosophical difference between the Christian, Islamic or Jewish faiths) is the only one where ALL of its adherents follow the words literally.

Remarkably enough, if this stuff didn't all revolve around killing, mutilating, annihilating and (apparently) eating those who disagree with some words on paper (as it were) - then it would be kind of funny to point out that, if, as many here seem to suggest, Islam is the only religion that is followed literally - it would seem then to be the only actually successful religion.

This is an appalling idea, for my part, no organised religion after all is successful at anything other than utilising a framework of ideas (some are pretty good ideas too) to exert unrestrained power and control over masses of people. It may be a newsflash to some, but this is bad.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49400 At my desk.	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #1 - Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:51pm Do you think those Aussie Muslims who have traveled to the middle east to participate in the Muslim rape and pillage festival did so because of Islam, or was Islam merely the convenient excuse they picked up along the way?
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #2 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:11pm freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:51pm: Do you think those Aussie Muslims who have traveled to the middle east to participate in the Muslim rape and pillage festival did so because of Islam, or was Islam merely the convenient excuse they picked up along the way? Yes
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #3 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:12pm Do you think those people though should learn to take some personal responsibility? Do you blame the religion for the choices individuals make?
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #4 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:13pm FD, if you are going to put "or" into a question, don't you think it should represent two different questions?
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #5 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:14pm Or... Do you think the Christian religion has examples encouraging people to commit heinous acts?
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs...
Reply #6 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:32pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:

Do you think those Aussie Muslims who have traveled to the middle east to participate in the Muslim rape and pillage festival did so because of Islam, or was Islam merely the convenient excuse they picked up along the way?

You forgot the plunder part FD, as long as Allah gets his 20% cut it's ok to steal their wealth after killing the men and enslaving the women and children.

quran.com/8/41

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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cods

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Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs...
Reply #7 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 5:48pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

Or... Do you think the Christian religion has examples encouraging people to commit heinous acts?

remembering that these worthy books like the Bible were translated many years ago from old lost languages..

is it at all possible that the word EAT of flesh had a different meaning or was translated badly.. it could have been awe of flesh which has a different meaning in our times...

I think if everyone took the bible on face value they would be doing themselves a disservice.....

the word bond is also there... do we still use that word when we employ someone.???

goodness me were the 10 Commandments written in English...

after all it tells us..

thou shalt not kill..

does that mean if we eat each other or the horse they are alive when we do so. Roll Eyes

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cods

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Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs...
Reply #8 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 5:49pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:32pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 5:51pm:

Do you think those Aussie Muslims who have traveled to the middle east to participate in the Muslim rape and pillage festival did so because of Islam, or was Islam merely the convenient excuse they picked up along the way?

You forgot the plunder part FD, as long as Allah gets his 20% cut it's ok to steal their wealth after killing the men and enslaving the women and children.

quran.com/8/41

I thought the 70 viorgins was a good enough reason to rape and pillage.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49400 At my desk.	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #9 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 6:52pm Phemanderac wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:13pm: FD, if you are going to put "or" into a question, don't you think it should represent two different questions? Silly me. I thought common sense might get you through it.
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #10 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:16pm Silly you, because if Islam and Islam being a convenient excuse are simply two different ways to say the same thing... Silly you indeed.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49400 At my desk.	Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs... Reply #11 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 7:32pm Do you understand the distinction between motivation and excuse/justification?
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Yadda

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Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs...
Reply #12 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 10:45pm

Phemanderac,

Why would you believe that cannibalism is allowed or encouraged, by the God of the OT bible ???

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

Remarkably enough, if this stuff didn't all revolve around killing, mutilating, annihilating and (apparently) eating those who disagree with some words on paper (as it were) - then it would be kind of funny to point out that, if, as many here seem to suggest, Islam is the only religion that is followed literally - it would seem then to be the only actually successful religion.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

It gets worse, cannibalism would also seem to be "God's will"...

"King James Bible
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

Cannibalism ???

Revelation 19:17
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Phemanderac,

There is no sanction given by the God of the bible, which allows or encourages cannibalism.

I suggest, that instead of doing a COPY & PASTE, off an antiChristian sites, you should read your bible.

I would suggest, that

before PUBLICLY DISPLAYING YOUR OWN IGNORANCE AND ERROR, TO EVERYONE WHO READS YOUR POSTS

, you should read your bible first.

Phemanderac,

These words are for YOU;

The word,
ignorance
comes from the root;
to ignore

Dictionary;
ignore = = disregard intentionally. fail to consider (something significant).

Dictionary;
ignorant, ignorance = =
1 lacking knowledge or awareness in general. uninformed about or unaware of a specific subject or fact.
2 discourteous.
3 easily angered.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs...
Reply #13 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 10:50pm

Phemanderac,

Why would you believe that violence against disbelievers [non-Hebrews], is sanctioned or encouraged, by the God of the OT bible ???

You are totally mistaken.

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

"Deuteronomy 20:17New International Version (NIV)

17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

.....
.....

So, it would seem this concept of spreading the word by violence is not the sole preview of Islam.

Given, it is reasonable to suggest that not ALL Christians behave in the ways they are directed to by the holy word I am more than a little bemused that, apparently the very similarly developed faith of Islam (apologies for any offense to Christians or Muslims, but,

Phemanderac,

You are mistaken.

Spreading ISLAM, by violence and the sword, is the sole 'preview' of ISLAM - and was not sanctioned in the religion of ancient Israel, or of Christians !!!

As the bible itself testifies.....
The ancient Hebrews HAD NO SANCTION FROM THEIR GOD TO MURDER OR TO HARM, THOSE WHO WERE NOT HEBREWS.

+++

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger:
for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

+++

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 5^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

.....as an outsider, I do not recognise a huge philosophical difference between the Christian, Islamic or Jewish faiths) is the only one where ALL of its adherents follow the words literally.

Phemanderac,

Why do you equate the morality of ISLAM and Christianity ?

You are totally mistaken.

There is no sanction given by either the God of the Hebrews [or to be found within the OT bible], which promotes violence against disbelievers [non-Hebrews].

IN FACT THE THE GOD OF THE HEBREWS SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS SUCH VIOLENCE AGAINST NON-HEBREWS

.

n.b.
COVENANT BREAKERS and SERIOUS CRIMINALS, were the only groups of people, which the Hebrews had a lawful sanction to kill [given by their God].

Phemanderac,

Those nations and peoples, the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, were ordered to be totally destroyed, by the God of the Hebrews, for a completely different reason.

It was because those nations practised widespread injustice, violence against innocent people, filicide and child killing.

Deuteronomy 12:29
When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Phemanderac,

I suggest, that instead of doing a COPY & PASTE, off an antiChristian sites, you should read your bible.

I would suggest, that

before PUBLICLY DISPLAYING YOUR OWN IGNORANCE AND ERROR, TO EVERYONE WHO READS YOUR POSTS

, you should read your bible first.

Phemanderac,

These words are for YOU;

The word,
ignorance
comes from the root;
to ignore

Dictionary;
ignore = = disregard intentionally. fail to consider (something significant).

Dictionary;
ignorant, ignorance = =
1 lacking knowledge or awareness in general. uninformed about or unaware of a specific subject or fact.
2 discourteous.
3 easily angered.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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issuevoter

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Re: Treachery thy name is beliefs...
Reply #14 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 10:59pm

Phemanderac wrote on Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

Or... Do you think the Christian religion has examples encouraging people to commit heinous acts?

This is one of the stock-standard arguments of apologists for, and defenders of Islam. It is relativism and is not of much use to anyone. It is true that Christianity has been used in this way, the IRA and Protestants in Ireland come to mind. But that does not change the reality of so called world wide Jihad since the 1990s which kills people in the street when ever it gets the chance. By comparison Christian violence looks like kindergarten. And as I have said before, you will change your tune when someone close to you becomes a victim of Islam.

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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

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