Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 ... 8
Send Topic Print
"There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten (Read 4882 times)
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
"There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:15pm
 
Tony Abbott surely knows someone upstairs likes him - a lot. While the former Catholic seminary student turned politician is struggling in the polls and with his recent recovery now stalled, the ALP has gifted the Federal Liberals the keys to the Lodge (should it ever be finished) and the treasury benches for another term.

In a decision that has left commentators gobsmacked, the ALP has formulated a draft policy to reintroduce the Carbon Tax, a policy that was despised by the majority of Australians and dogged the Gillard Government from day one until its inevitable landslide demise. The tax wasn't merely unpopular and unwanted, it was introduced after strident and repeated promises to not bring it in. It is the singular policy that brought down the Gillard Government which after the horrors of the Rudd leadership showed signs of competence. But the lie surrounding the Carbon Tax was the death knell to the Labor party and its doom was signed the same day the bill was passed.

John Howard's Liberals were put to the sword in 2007 over WorkChoices, a policy that had no mandate and was arguably in opposition to the election commitment to make no substantial changes to industrial legislation.  Possessing more bravado than brains, the Labor government showed they had learned nothing from John Howard's demise and introduced a hated policy in direct opposition to their stated promises. The Carbon Tax was the final nail in the coffin of a government already with one foot in the grave.

Somehow though, the notion of each party having to endure their own self-inflicted political suicide makes some sense. Many lessons can only be learned through personal experience. What doesn't make sense however, is to do it all over again as the Shorten-led Labor Opposition seems intent on doing.  The Liberals have buried WorkChoices having learned from that mistake, but the ALP seems intent on ensuring the Titanic can sink yet again.

Bill Shorten has impressed no one with his political nous or tactical skill and this mistake is simply the latest in a long list.  Labor has lumbered from one faux pas to another and this is the mother of all of them. The utter stupidity of even considering a return of the Carbon Tax is an indication that Labor is not yet fit or ready to return to government. Tony Abbott has certainly made his mistakes, but Has learned from them. Labor it seems, has learned nothing.

There is no retreating from this mistake.  Claims that it is just an internal policy document aren't going to wash with voters. Bill Shorten cannot say during the election campaign "There will be no carbon tax under any government I lead".  They will just laugh at him and rightly so.

John Howard's repeated come-from-behind victories prompted one smart alec to suggest that God votes Liberal. While that might have been a joke, it is however apparent that the Devil votes Labor and is currently working in their policy development area.

reprinted with permission
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96714
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #1 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:18pm
 
Quote:
reprinted with permission
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
crocodile
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #2 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:44pm
 
There is nothing really special about a tax on Carbon. It is perfectly saleable as long as it does not increase the overall tax burden. That equates to making it revenue neutral by the complete elimination of other taxes with the revenue generated.

There is a good case to be had for eliminating corporate tax and grossly inefficient taxes like stamp duties. Taxing carbon is relatively efficient and difficult to avoid. Stamp duties just act as a restraint to people doing business with each other.

However, your observation "Bill Shorten has impressed no one with his political nous" is the obvious hurdle.


Back to top
 

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #3 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:46pm
 
crocodile wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:44pm:
There is nothing really special about a tax on Carbon. It is perfectly saleable as long as it does not increase the overall tax burden. That equates to making it revenue neutral by the complete elimination of other taxes with the revenue generated.

There is a good case to be had for eliminating corporate tax and grossly inefficient taxes like stamp duties. Taxing carbon is relatively efficient and difficult to avoid. Stamp duties just act as a restraint to people doing business with each other.

However, your observation "Bill Shorten has impressed no one with his political nous" is the obvious hurdle.





You miss the point.  The argument isn't fiscal or economic but rather political.  The Carbon Tax is a popular a floating turd in the swimming pool.  Promising to bring it back is political death.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
President Elect, The Mechanic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17501
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #4 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:51pm
 
Bullshitten says that the will be no carbon tax blah blah...

BUT...

there is this little things about an Emissions Trading Scheme...

bugger me... how stupid do they think we are...  Angry
Back to top
 

Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38865
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #5 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm
 
Events in Paris later this year might change the political environment.  So, who wrote it melielongtime?  The same person who wrote that OP which brought on the challenge people took up, the one you then bolted from?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
crocodile
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #6 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:46pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:44pm:
There is nothing really special about a tax on Carbon. It is perfectly saleable as long as it does not increase the overall tax burden. That equates to making it revenue neutral by the complete elimination of other taxes with the revenue generated.

There is a good case to be had for eliminating corporate tax and grossly inefficient taxes like stamp duties. Taxing carbon is relatively efficient and difficult to avoid. Stamp duties just act as a restraint to people doing business with each other.

However, your observation "Bill Shorten has impressed no one with his political nous" is the obvious hurdle.





You miss the point.  The argument isn't fiscal or economic but rather political.  The Carbon Tax is a popular a floating turd in the swimming pool.  Promising to bring it back is political death.


Yes, I understand that Longy. It requires supreme sales skills and if done correctly could even be beneficial. The impediment is the leader.
Back to top
 

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #7 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm:
Events in Paris later this year might change the political environment.  So, who wrote it melielongtime?  The same person who wrote that OP which brought on the challenge people took up, the one you then bolted from?


no one took up the challenge.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #8 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:18pm
 
crocodile wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:46pm:
crocodile wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:44pm:
There is nothing really special about a tax on Carbon. It is perfectly saleable as long as it does not increase the overall tax burden. That equates to making it revenue neutral by the complete elimination of other taxes with the revenue generated.

There is a good case to be had for eliminating corporate tax and grossly inefficient taxes like stamp duties. Taxing carbon is relatively efficient and difficult to avoid. Stamp duties just act as a restraint to people doing business with each other.

However, your observation "Bill Shorten has impressed no one with his political nous" is the obvious hurdle.





You miss the point.  The argument isn't fiscal or economic but rather political.  The Carbon Tax is a popular a floating turd in the swimming pool.  Promising to bring it back is political death.


Yes, I understand that Longy. It requires supreme sales skills and if done correctly could even be beneficial. The impediment is the leader.


I'm not sure anyone could sell a policy that has been comprehensively rejected and the subject of a breathtakingly arrogant promise breach.  And that is before you try to seel the actual merits of the policy in dealing with Climate Change which is very much a minority opinion nowadays.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
Neferti
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 7965
Canberra
Gender: female
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #9 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:19pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm:
Events in Paris later this year might change the political environment.  So, who wrote it melielongtime?  The same person who wrote that OP which brought on the challenge people took up, the one you then bolted from?


OK, I'll bite.  What "events" in Paris?  Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96714
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #10 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:25pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm:
Events in Paris later this year might change the political environment.  So, who wrote it melielongtime?  The same person who wrote that OP which brought on the challenge people took up, the one you then bolted from?


no one took up the challenge.


No one? But Longy, your account of gay incest is superb.

I could not possibly compete with my own essay, but I got Bill Shorten. You got something you have personal experience of, which always helps.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Deep State Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 85457
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #11 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:32pm
 
"The death of the economy swill not be used as a reason to restore a carbon tax?"

"No.. period, finished, El-Ae-Dubbya LAW - it's dead, buried and cremated (thus adding to pollution but who cares)....."

...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38865
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #12 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:40pm
 
Neferti wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm:
Events in Paris later this year might change the political environment.  So, who wrote it melielongtime?  The same person who wrote that OP which brought on the challenge people took up, the one you then bolted from?


OK, I'll bite.  What "events" in Paris?  Roll Eyes


You'd have to be the only person who frequents a Forum like this who does not know.  No surprise to me.

Link.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38865
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #13 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:41pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm:
Events in Paris later this year might change the political environment.  So, who wrote it melielongtime?  The same person who wrote that OP which brought on the challenge people took up, the one you then bolted from?


no one took up the challenge.


Oh yeas they did.  You have read Karnal's offering.  He seems to have nailed yours as well.  You bolted on your own challenge melielongtime.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: "There will be no Carbon Tax": Shorten
Reply #14 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 4:07pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
Neferti wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 1:52pm:
Events in Paris later this year might change the political environment.  So, who wrote it melielongtime?  The same person who wrote that OP which brought on the challenge people took up, the one you then bolted from?


OK, I'll bite.  What "events" in Paris?  Roll Eyes


You'd have to be the only person who frequents a Forum like this who does not know.  No surprise to me.

Link.



those events come and go every couple years and change nothing. They never do.  Who could forget Copenhagen where the dopes gathered to address global warming in the middle of the coldest snap in decades and so much snow that most of the luvvies planes were grounded.

it will be the same in Paris.  Lots of talk, lots of promises, lots of phots and absolutely no agreement on anything other than to come back again and do it all over - at taxpayer expense.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 8
Send Topic Print