Australian Politics Forum - In defence of Gay Marriage

Karnal

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #315 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:34pm

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

And do you know? This is my only argument against gay marriage. Human rights issues are things like child soldiers, or indentured labour, or forced prostitution, or people trafficking, or slavery. The developing world must be having a jolly good chuckle at our human rights issues.

But it is what it is. The old boy would have you believe gay marriage would make his marriage (and divorce) feel somehow inferior. Gay marriage would go against his human right to be not lumped in with all the deviants.

You know, the deviants are vilifying him, bullying him - offending him and all normal people.

Personally, I find the whole thing dazzingly self indulgent. I don’t mind if there’s gay marriage or not. Nor do many of the gays I know - it seems to me that the very benefit of being gay is to not have to settle down with one person until you die.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

This thread exists because Longy didn’t want to write an essay on gay incest. It’s taken a few turns, but that’s all it is. One of these turns is the response to Mothra’s facts. Some people want to deny reality, and I think this is a mistake.

More than a mistake, it’s vanity. Mistakes are stupid. The hubris expressed here is mendacious. Deny history, and you deny part of yourself - this is what such arrogant willful ignorance is all about. History is not the present. It has surprisingly different values and ideas. As Quantum has pointed out, gay marriage in the case of Nero was an extention of slavery, but so was most marriage in traditional cultures. The idea of marriage as a partnership between two equals is a modern construct. It’s not much more than a century old.

Viewing the past from this perspective is vain, arrogant and ignorant. I couldn’t give two figs about gay marriage, but at least try to get your facts right. Life is full of unpleasant truths. I can think of far worse ones than not being allowed to own a certificate - or someone else being allowed to own one.

The only way to deal with such truths - past and present - is to acknowledge them.

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Karnal

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #316 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:49pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 7:39pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

You are such a troll. I am surprised anyone bothers to engage you. It is all rather obvious after a week.

This, by the way, is not how to engage in a debate. Not only does it not persuade anybody of anything, it's self indulgent solipsism.

I'm surprised you're surprised, Maria. You engage with my every post. This is rather obvious after a week too - and maybe even Longer.

There is a clear and obvious irony in this post (since I am replying), but the point is that you don't engage in debate. You lie, misquote and seek to do nothing more than harm or distraction to a topic. You clearly lack the ability to engage a debate since I've not seen you do so ever.

You are not worth replying to in general, because you are not at all interested in the topic at hand, the concept of debate or any other form of discussion. You are quite simply, a troll - the kind of vermin that infest most fora around the world. You are the intellectual minutiae of the online world.

I think Maria is coming on to you, Karnal.

Oh, I know.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #317 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:53pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:49pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 7:39pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

You are such a troll. I am surprised anyone bothers to engage you. It is all rather obvious after a week.

This, by the way, is not how to engage in a debate. Not only does it not persuade anybody of anything, it's self indulgent solipsism.

I'm surprised you're surprised, Maria. You engage with my every post. This is rather obvious after a week too - and maybe even Longer.

There is a clear and obvious irony in this post (since I am replying), but the point is that you don't engage in debate. You lie, misquote and seek to do nothing more than harm or distraction to a topic. You clearly lack the ability to engage a debate since I've not seen you do so ever.

You are not worth replying to in general, because you are not at all interested in the topic at hand, the concept of debate or any other form of discussion. You are quite simply, a troll - the kind of vermin that infest most fora around the world. You are the intellectual minutiae of the online world.

I think Maria is coming on to you, Karnal.

Oh, I know.

I don't know about you, but I'm just a little excited.

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Soren

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #318 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:02pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

And do you know? This is my only argument against gay marriage. Human rights issues are things like child soldiers, or indentured labour, or forced prostitution, or people trafficking, or slavery. The developing world must be having a jolly good chuckle at our human rights issues.

But it is what it is. The old boy would have you believe gay marriage would make his marriage (and divorce) feel somehow inferior. Gay marriage would go against his human right to be not lumped in with all the deviants.

You know, the deviants are vilifying him, bullying him - offending him and all normal people.

Personally, I find the whole thing dazzingly self indulgent. I don’t mind if there’s gay marriage or not. Nor do many of the gays I know - it seems to me that the very benefit of being gay is to not have to settle down with one person until you die.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

This thread exists because Longy didn’t want to write an essay on gay incest. It’s taken a few turns, but that’s all it is. One of these turns is the response to Mothra’s facts. Some people want to deny reality, and I think this is a mistake.

More than a mistake, it’s vanity. Mistakes are stupid. The hubris expressed here is mendacious. Deny history, and you deny part of yourself - this is what such arrogant willful ignorance is all about. History is not the present. It has surprisingly different values and ideas. As Quantum has pointed out, gay marriage in the case of Nero was an extention of slavery, but so was most marriage in traditional cultures. The idea of marriage as a partnership between two equals is a modern construct. It’s not much more than a century old.

Viewing the past from this perspective is vain, arrogant and ignorant. I couldn’t give two figs about gay marriage, but at least try to get your facts right. Life is full of unpleasant truths. I can think of far worse ones than not being allowed to own a certificate - or someone else being allowed to own one.

The only way to deal with such truths - past and present - is to acknowledge them.

You seem very passionate about all sorts of things that do not matter.
On the other hand, with things that do matter, you are the prattling, gibberish-spouting clown.

Quote:

The idea of marriage as a partnership between two equals is a modern construct.

Something that 'oddly' coincides with the individual replacing the clan and the tribe and the estate as the focus of society - ushering in freedom and liberal democracy. But it is no oddity, these are things that go hand in hand.

No society has a stake in homosexual relationships. To pretend that they are as valuable as the relationships that societies do depend on is ridiculous. Gay marriage is being introduced only on societies that have run out of the will to survive.
Der Untergang des Abendlandes.

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Soren

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #319 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:33pm

mothra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

It'll all be over soon ... when same sex marriages are legal.

The point, though, is that marriage is not JUST a legal matter.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: In defence of Gay Marriage Reply #320 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:34pm Karnal wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 5:45pm: Funny how the old boy changed arguments like that. I wonder what did it. How so, PB??
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96597	Re: In defence of Gay Marriage Reply #321 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:45pm Sorry, old boy, did someone say freedom.and liberal democracy? Shurely shome mishtake. Anyone for tennis?
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Karnal

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #322 - Aug 26^th, 2015 at 10:49pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:53pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 8:49pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 7:39pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 5:54pm:

You are such a troll. I am surprised anyone bothers to engage you. It is all rather obvious after a week.

This, by the way, is not how to engage in a debate. Not only does it not persuade anybody of anything, it's self indulgent solipsism.

I'm surprised you're surprised, Maria. You engage with my every post. This is rather obvious after a week too - and maybe even Longer.

There is a clear and obvious irony in this post (since I am replying), but the point is that you don't engage in debate. You lie, misquote and seek to do nothing more than harm or distraction to a topic. You clearly lack the ability to engage a debate since I've not seen you do so ever.

You are not worth replying to in general, because you are not at all interested in the topic at hand, the concept of debate or any other form of discussion. You are quite simply, a troll - the kind of vermin that infest most fora around the world. You are the intellectual minutiae of the online world.

I think Maria is coming on to you, Karnal.

Oh, I know.

I don't know about you, but I'm just a little excited.

Well, you do like anal.

Meet the old boy, Greggery. I’ll leave you two to make friends.

Old boy, you be nice.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #323 - Aug 27^th, 2015 at 4:40am

mothra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

It'll all be over soon ... when same sex marriages are legal.

As long as we can enjoy the silence without the shrieking violets whining about their 'rights'....

Why can't two carpet munchers marry two gays in two separate man/woman marriages and just share a house or something?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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mariacostel

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #324 - Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:28am

mothra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

It'll all be over soon ... when same sex marriages are legal.

And there is the main point we are getting to. IT WILL NOT BE OVER.

The gay activism will take on another target. How about forcing Churches to conduct gay weddings? Forcing them to have gay staff ratios etc?

What do you think will happen next or are you really that gullible as to think this is just about marriage - an institution that a majority don't care for?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #325 - Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:31am

mariacostel wrote on Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

mothra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

It'll all be over soon ... when same sex marriages are legal.

And there is the main point we are getting to. IT WILL NOT BE OVER.

The gay activism will take on another target. How about forcing Churches to conduct gay weddings? Forcing them to have gay staff ratios etc?

What do you think will happen next or are you really that gullible as to think this is just about marriage - an institution that a majority don't care for?

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question.

In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed.

This "argument" has the following form:

1. Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
2. Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

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mariacostel

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #326 - Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:44am

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:31am:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

mothra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

It'll all be over soon ... when same sex marriages are legal.

And there is the main point we are getting to. IT WILL NOT BE OVER.

The gay activism will take on another target. How about forcing Churches to conduct gay weddings? Forcing them to have gay staff ratios etc?

What do you think will happen next or are you really that gullible as to think this is just about marriage - an institution that a majority don't care for?

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question.

In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed.

This "argument" has the following form:

1. Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
2. Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

You are like a child who discovers Google and thinks all wisdom is to be found there. And precedence is on my side. While I recognise you seem to have little understanding of what that word means, gays fought to be decriminalised and won. Then came the end of formal discrimination in employment and services. That too has won. Next comes gay marriage. Why would anyone expect it to stop there?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 139545 Gender:	Re: In defence of Gay Marriage Reply #327 - Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:47am mariacostel wrote on Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:44am: You are like a child who discovers Google and thinks all wisdom is to be found there. Hmmm, more like an adult who can spot a phony with a fallacy from a mile away. Watch your step on that slippery slope, Maria.
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mothra

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #328 - Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:48am

mariacostel wrote on Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

mothra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

It'll all be over soon ... when same sex marriages are legal.

And there is the main point we are getting to. IT WILL NOT BE OVER.

The gay activism will take on another target. How about forcing Churches to conduct gay weddings? Forcing them to have gay staff ratios etc?

What do you think will happen next or are you really that gullible as to think this is just about marriage - an institution that a majority don't care for?

Obviously Maria, he argument about same sex marriage will be over when same sex marriage is legalised.

Will the 'uppity gays and lesbians' demand something new? How about they are a demographic with there own representation and will continue to be present on the scene. They won't go away, if that is what you were hoping for.

You're going to have to accept that too.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Karnal

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #329 - Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:49am

mariacostel wrote on Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

mothra wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 26^th, 2015 at 6:48pm:

And while the self acclaimed academic wankers here prattle on about gay marriage ... the world keeps turning & churning out far more serious concerns to us all.

It'll all be over soon ... when same sex marriages are legal.

And there is the main point we are getting to. IT WILL NOT BE OVER.

The gay activism will take on another target. How about forcing Churches to conduct gay weddings? Forcing them to have gay staff ratios etc?

What do you think will happen next or are you really that gullible as to think this is just about marriage - an institution that a majority don't care for?

Exactly. You support gay marriage, Maria, but I doubt you'll support the cause of gay incest.

Not even Longy was up to that.

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