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In defence of Gay Marriage (Read 42966 times)
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #375 - Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:03pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:26pm:
Gibbon's argument on Rome is that such debauchery caused the decline and fall of the Roman empire - a very Victorian argument.



Is it a cause, or a symptom?
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In the fullness of time...
 
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mariacostel
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #376 - Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:06pm
 
... wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:03pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:26pm:
Gibbon's argument on Rome is that such debauchery caused the decline and fall of the Roman empire - a very Victorian argument.



Is it a cause, or a symptom?


It has been argued that moral failure is the cause of failure of most if not all empires. It is not of course the only reason, but it is likewise argued that moral uprightness is a strength that holds empires together and removing that exposes all the weaknesses that end up destroying it. It is a complex and difficult question and I would add that I think most people here would reject a moral value, period.
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #377 - Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:10pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:26pm:
... wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:13pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:09pm:
Nero was not the only Roman citizen/ruler to have a gay marriage.



Correct.  There was also that other crazy emperor Elagabalus, who reigned from age 14 - 18.  Let us see how history views him:

Quote:
Elagabalus developed a reputation among his contemporaries for extreme eccentricity, decadence and zealotry.[5] This tradition has persisted, and in writers of the early modern age he suffers one of the worst reputations among Roman emperors. Edward Gibbon, for example, wrote that Elagabalus "abandoned himself to the grossest pleasures and ungoverned fury."[6] According to B.G. Niebuhr, "The name Elagabalus is branded in history above all others" because of his "unspeakably disgusting life."[7]


Interesting.


Gibbon's argument on Rome is that such debauchery caused the decline and fall of the Roman empire - a very Victorian argument. 



Is it, our thick little "make it up as he goes, 10 rupee gimme' Paki Bvgger?

Edward Gibbon 8 May 1737 – 16 January 1794
Queen Victoria: reigned 20 June 1837  – 22 January 1901

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mariacostel
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #378 - Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:13pm
 
Soren wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:10pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:26pm:
... wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:13pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:09pm:
Nero was not the only Roman citizen/ruler to have a gay marriage.



Correct.  There was also that other crazy emperor Elagabalus, who reigned from age 14 - 18.  Let us see how history views him:

Quote:
Elagabalus developed a reputation among his contemporaries for extreme eccentricity, decadence and zealotry.[5] This tradition has persisted, and in writers of the early modern age he suffers one of the worst reputations among Roman emperors. Edward Gibbon, for example, wrote that Elagabalus "abandoned himself to the grossest pleasures and ungoverned fury."[6] According to B.G. Niebuhr, "The name Elagabalus is branded in history above all others" because of his "unspeakably disgusting life."[7]


Interesting.


Gibbon's argument on Rome is that such debauchery caused the decline and fall of the Roman empire - a very Victorian argument. 



Is it, our thick little "make it up as he goes, 10 rupee gimme' Paki Bvgger?

Edward Gibbon 8 May 1737 – 16 January 1794
Queen Victoria: reigned 20 June 1837  – 22 January 1901



I find him to be nothing more than a troll. He is Pakistani?
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Karnal
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #379 - Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:36pm
 
Soren wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:10pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:26pm:
... wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:13pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:09pm:
Nero was not the only Roman citizen/ruler to have a gay marriage.



Correct.  There was also that other crazy emperor Elagabalus, who reigned from age 14 - 18.  Let us see how history views him:

Quote:
Elagabalus developed a reputation among his contemporaries for extreme eccentricity, decadence and zealotry.[5] This tradition has persisted, and in writers of the early modern age he suffers one of the worst reputations among Roman emperors. Edward Gibbon, for example, wrote that Elagabalus "abandoned himself to the grossest pleasures and ungoverned fury."[6] According to B.G. Niebuhr, "The name Elagabalus is branded in history above all others" because of his "unspeakably disgusting life."[7]


Interesting.


Gibbon's argument on Rome is that such debauchery caused the decline and fall of the Roman empire - a very Victorian argument. 



Is it, our thick little "make it up as he goes, 10 rupee gimme' Paki Bvgger?

Edward Gibbon 8 May 1737 – 16 January 1794
Queen Victoria: reigned 20 June 1837  – 22 January 1901



An excellent point, OB. Thanks for the correction.

Listen, you couldn’t help a chap out with a spare ten rupees could you, old boy? I seem to have left my pocketbook at home.
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Karnal
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #380 - Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:46pm
 
... wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 6:03pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 3:26pm:
Gibbon's argument on Rome is that such debauchery caused the decline and fall of the Roman empire - a very Victorian argument.



Is it a cause, or a symptom?


Oh, a cause. Like Sodom and Gomorah. It’s the classic old boy narrative - very influential. You’ll see old Sore End buying into the argument on everything from multiculturalism to the hommers. It’s all about values, you see. Apparently everything from history to economic development to biological determinism relies on them.

He’s not entirely wrong either. He’s just not entirely right.
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #381 - Aug 30th, 2015 at 1:23am
 
mariacostel wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 9:03am:
mothra wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 2:56am:
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 28th, 2015 at 2:19am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 16th, 2015 at 6:24pm:
Phemanderac wrote on Jul 16th, 2015 at 6:11pm:
That was a good read. There are aspects to it that I would debate further, time permitting, which for me it isn't presently.

Now, you say you wrote every word of it, yet, at the bottom of the piece there is, in bold the words "reprinted with permission"...

Reprinted with whose permission?

Also, I would respectfully suggest that whilst the piece articulates very well why Gay Marriage is inevitable - the piece does not specifically or passionately defend Gay Marriage, at best it says in lots of words, "Meh, it's gonna happen eventually, meh..."

So, yep, still a good and interesting read. Good work on that front. For my part though, I don't believe that you did the actual topic justice.

And, yes, whose permission?


thanks. 'reprinted by permission' is my new signature block, largely because it confuses the hell out of the simpletons.  Your comment about passionately is probably reasonable. I was running out of space as it was already 1200+ words and so if I were publishing this elsewhere I would have edited the crap out of it and inserted some more passionate defence.

45mins was all I had.

Putting 'reprinted by permission' in you signature block doesn't excuse you from telling outright bald-faced lies.  Remember that you told us that "NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming".

That was just a complete and utter lie wasn't it. A quick look at the NASA website shows you are a liar, it says: Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Why do you think that anyone would take a proven liar like you seriously?



We need to ask Maria. She just claimed that the peer reviewed work of a Harvard graduate Professor working as a Professor of history at Yale was 'largely discredited' despite evidence to the contrary.

Maria claimed this because the Professor in question was gay and a gay person has previously submitted a discredited article so all work submitted by gay people is 'widely discredited'.

She just makes it all up as she goes along. She's that good.

Maria says she isn't Longy though. She would never lie about that, would she?


Well that was an interesting interpretation of what I said. Like most people on the failing side of an argument you grasp at straws. All I asked you to do was to consider why precisely ONE person in the entire academic world managed to find this 'evidence' of gay marriage in the past and no one else has. And yes, the fact that he was a gay activist who only wrote pro-gay material is a relevant point. And even the article you quote mentioned that it was highly controversial and often criticised, which was what I said.

There has never been any significant examples of gay marriage in history as the USA Supreme Court also found. I know you don't like that because it doesn't tick the boxes you want ticked, but it remains true just the same.




Really? An interesting take on what you said?

You said:

"You introduce the point that if Gay Marriage were so common and so acceptable in the past, where is the evidence? To date the evidence is actually nil. There are, as you say, comments such as 'suggest' or 'make possible', but zero actual fact and the best Mothra can come up with are the highly disputed writings of a gay activist Professor who wrote almost exclusively and increasingly hysterically about gays and the church before his death of AIDS."


Highly disputed?

Evidence please.

All of the academic responses i have read are far from discrediting. Peer reviewed and congratulatory is what i've come across.

Wrote increasingly and hysterically?

Evidence please.

He wrote on the subject of his study. With references. A brilliant man with a fabulous reputation.


WHere have i erred in representing you Maria? It is clear i have not.

Where have you erred in representing the author of the papers you are desperately trying to refute?

...well he wrote hysterically until he died of AIDS and other gay authors have been discredited.

Link please.

Do you not agree that you come across as a little ... well ... desperate?
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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #382 - Aug 30th, 2015 at 2:01am
 
Hush then - the AIDS addled his brain....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #383 - Aug 31st, 2015 at 8:34pm
 
When will you be coming home, Longy? We’d all like to read about gay incest, you know.

I’ll give you a deal. I’ll fulfill my promise to do paedophilia if you do gay incest.

Agreed?
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #384 - Jan 4th, 2017 at 7:59pm
 
Now, now - you kids!  SHARE that dog!  Now bring your two halves of him in and let me see if I can stitch him together.....  (sotto voce) ...
the things ya gotta do when you've got KIDS!!!
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #385 - Jan 4th, 2017 at 8:22pm
 
...
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Modern Classic Right Wing
 
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #386 - Jan 4th, 2017 at 8:23pm
 
Trust Longy to write an article supporting homos.

Longy - what happened when you were a choir boy?

Spell it out - you'll feel better.
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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #387 - Jan 4th, 2017 at 8:25pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 4th, 2017 at 8:22pm:


Speak up, Sprint.

Are you suggesting that gay marriage causes Bacillary Angiomatosis?

If so, does straight marriage cause syphilis?

Give it your best shot, you deplorable, hypocritical, fake Christian POS.

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #388 - Jan 4th, 2017 at 8:28pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 4th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
Trust Longy to write an article supporting homos.

Longy - what happened when you were a choir boy?

Spell it out - you'll feel better.


As will you, I'm sure.


...

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #389 - Jan 4th, 2017 at 8:32pm
 
An unhealthy diet has worse health implications than contracting aids these days.
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IBI
 
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