Australian Politics Forum - In defence of Gay Marriage

Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 85176 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: In defence of Gay Marriage Reply #90 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual... Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires..... There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

mothra

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #91 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #92 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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mothra

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #93 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #94 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:53am

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

And they should ( and, in truth) DO have that right..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #95 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:00am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:53am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

And they should ( and, in truth) DO have that right..

How do they have that right? They want to - does that make it a right?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #96 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:01am

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

I'm certain any number of people want to kill their neighbours - but it is not currently allowed...... wanting is not the whole deal.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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gizmo_2655

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #97 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:10am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:00am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:53am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

And they should ( and, in truth) DO have that right..

How do they have that right? They want to - does that make it a right?

THey 'should' have the right, because 'marriage' is about 2 people (regardless of gender) committing to a life together..

The 'religious' (christian controlled) version of marriage is a very new idea...it's only 500 years old, as opposed to the 15,000+ years of the idea of 'life mating'....

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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mothra

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #98 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:12am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:01am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

I'm certain any number of people want to kill their neighbours - but it is not currently allowed...... wanting is not the whole deal.

Honestly Grap, how is that comparable?

And i say this as a person who is currently sitting in her home with an 18th going on next door. Buggered if i know when i'm getting to sleep tonight.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #99 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:17am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:10am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:00am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:53am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

And they should ( and, in truth) DO have that right..

How do they have that right? They want to - does that make it a right?

THey 'should' have the right, because 'marriage' is about 2 people (regardless of gender) committing to a life together..

The 'religious' (christian controlled) version of marriage is a very new idea...it's only 500 years old, as opposed to the 15,000+ years of the idea of 'life mating'....

So we can now abandon 500 years of social institutions which have contributed to the development of Rights and upward progression in social value of every individual, or pick one at will and say we now need to alter that? Hokay...

Do you realise that your argument opens the way to the abolition of any Right for anyone at any time - just because a group wants it?

So if Tony's group decide they no longer want to pay pensioners - pensions will stop?

This is a slippery slope - not just in the (to me) nonsense that some put out that allowing Gay marriage will open the door to marrying goats etc... but in the reality that this is opening the door to a change in a long-established and relatively successful social institution because a small minority want it changed.

Do you see my point?

I long ago said that I had no objection to gay marriage, since it caused no harm and actually helped some, and had zero effect on anyone else etc.... but I would simply like to know how and why Gay marriage is an absolute requirement on society.... again in view of the fact that Gays do NOT suffer any disadvantage in the right to marry as it now stands.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #100 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:25am

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:12am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:01am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:48am:

mothra wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:40am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

I don;t want to alter the definition of marriage .. i wish to extend it to incorporate same sex couples.

Not hard, is it?

Why?

Because a number of gay and lesbian people want to get married.

I'm certain any number of people want to kill their neighbours - but it is not currently allowed...... wanting is not the whole deal.

Honestly Grap, how is that comparable?

And i say this as a person who is currently sitting in her home with an 18th going on next door. Buggered if i know when i'm getting to sleep tonight.

It's just highlighting the difference between a want and a need.... I can think of several neighbours who require a small bullet to the head... but it is not an accepted approach to their problem.

People WANT many things - they NEED very few.... so discussing gay marriage in terms of a WANT is not really valid.

The need concept of marriage arose from the need to provide a stable environment in which family - which is the basis of all human endeavour (though often abused by politicians to get people to sacrifice etc) - could prosper for the benefit of the most protected species on earth - Children. It then followed that the institution of marriage could and would provide security for the PARENTS of Children - and thus provide stability and security for the Group as a whole.

We are animals driven by basic needs - the MOST basic being the development and protection of Family.... (hence the massive rise in DV and murders of estranged 'partners' who disrupt this basic need for family and stability deriving from it).

How then include as a NEED the WANT of a group with no commitment to or possibility of family due to lifestyle?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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gizmo_2655

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #101 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:27am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

Well, NO they don't..
IF they did, we wouldn't be having this argument..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #102 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:48am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:27am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

Well, NO they don't..
IF they did, we wouldn't be having this argument..

What Gay has no right to marry a person of the opposite sex, and even have children in that marriage? I've known Gays who have done that.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Karnal

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #103 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:55am

Bam wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 16^th, 2015 at 5:44pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 16^th, 2015 at 5:42pm:

That’s cute, Longy. Which American writer did you get permission off to reprint that?

I wrote it. every word.

With more than 50% of that piece being direct quotations from a single source without attribution (that's plagiarism, btw), and much of the rest just paraphrasing that same source? You didn't write that, you EDITED it. Roll Eyes

Yes, I’d be interested to see Maria’s views on Longy’s essay. Maria is a staunch opponent of gay marriage.

Maria, what do you think of ex-member Longy’s views on this subject?

I’m.curious.

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mothra

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Re: In defence of Gay Marriage
Reply #104 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:58am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:48am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:27am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:37am:

Why defend gay marriage? Gays have the same right to marriage as you and I.... and I know not of thee.. but I am 100% heterosexual...

Point is - we can both marry someone of the opposite sex as marriage requires.....

There endeth the lesson.... unless you wish to alter the definition of marriage......

Well, NO they don't..
IF they did, we wouldn't be having this argument..

What Gay has no right to marry a person of the opposite sex, and even have children in that marriage? I've known Gays who have done that.

THe point is that a peson should have the right to marry for love.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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