Australian Politics Forum - How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu

double plus good Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5693 Gender:	Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu Reply #225 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:32pm ,,
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double plus good

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #226 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:34pm

mothra wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:30pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:25pm:

mothra wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:20pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:19pm:

mothra wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:18pm:

Anyway, you are aware that there are many Muslim majority countries that have absolutely no problem with same sex relations and a few that are even on the verge of allowing same sex marriage?

Don't let your bigotry get in the way of the facts Double.

Which Muslim countries??

Same-sex sexual intercourse is legal in 19 Muslim-majority nations (Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Burkina Faso, Chad, Djibouti, Guinea-Bissau, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Niger, Tajikistan, Turkey, West Bank (State of Palestine), and most of Indonesia). In Albania, Lebanon, and Turkey, there have been discussions about legalizing same-sex marriage.[10][11] Homosexual relations between females are legal in Kuwait, but homosexual acts between males are illegal. Lebanon has had recent internal efforts to legalize homosexuality.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

So that's 19 out of many muslim countries. Not very good is it? What about Christian countries??

Nice try at a save but the point you are missing is that many Muslims are moderate and accepting of difference and are not strict adherents of the Quran.

Much like Christians.

So doesn't it logically follow that Muslims in a moderate country like Australia don't mostly seek the execution of gays and lesbians?

How do you know most Muslims are moderate. Try being gay born to an Islamic family. Muslim women are forbidden to marry outside their faith. Look it up Mothra. Who are the bigots?

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double plus good Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5693 Gender:	Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu Reply #227 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:35pm ,,
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mothra

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #228 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:35pm

double plus good wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:34pm:

mothra wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:30pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:25pm:

mothra wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:20pm:

double plus good wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:19pm:

mothra wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:18pm:

Anyway, you are aware that there are many Muslim majority countries that have absolutely no problem with same sex relations and a few that are even on the verge of allowing same sex marriage?

Don't let your bigotry get in the way of the facts Double.

Which Muslim countries??

Same-sex sexual intercourse is legal in 19 Muslim-majority nations (Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Burkina Faso, Chad, Djibouti, Guinea-Bissau, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Niger, Tajikistan, Turkey, West Bank (State of Palestine), and most of Indonesia). In Albania, Lebanon, and Turkey, there have been discussions about legalizing same-sex marriage.[10][11] Homosexual relations between females are legal in Kuwait, but homosexual acts between males are illegal. Lebanon has had recent internal efforts to legalize homosexuality.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

So that's 19 out of many muslim countries. Not very good is it? What about Christian countries??

Nice try at a save but the point you are missing is that many Muslims are moderate and accepting of difference and are not strict adherents of the Quran.

Much like Christians.

So doesn't it logically follow that Muslims in a moderate country like Australia don't mostly seek the execution of gays and lesbians?

How do you know most Muslims are moderate. Try being gay born to an Islamic family. Muslim women are forbidden to marry outside their faith. Look it up Mothra. Who are the bigots?

Well, you for a start.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu Reply #229 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:03pm double plus good wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 6:25pm: What about Christian countries?? Uganda for one.
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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #230 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:31pm

mothra wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 5:59pm:

... wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 5:07pm:

Quote:

A muslim minding his own business in Australia

Muslims have no business in australia.

I'd rather have Muslims in Australia than bigots. Unfortunately, i don't get a vote.

Best we all try to get along eh?

If "getting along" is your goal, why import a source of conflict? It doesn't make sense.

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In the fullness of time...

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freediver

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #231 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 5:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 2:57pm:

Having actual genocide, torture, sex slavery, war, highway robbery, domestic violence etc written into the Koran and Hadith does not stop you being an apologist for Islam.

What a comparison! - smearing 1.5 billion people all over the world by the actions of a few, with daring to suggest a couple of hundred protesters - a fair proportion of which are actual neo-nazis with swastikas - are racists. A muslim minding his own business in Australia has no say in being associated with head-hackers in Syria - but someone who is genuinely concerned by the threat of Islam to our liberal democracy can choose whether or not he joins hands with neo-nazis in a protest.

By the religion they choose to believe in Gandalf. Are you seriously suggesting that it is wrong to judge people by the beliefs they hold?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #232 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:03pm

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:53pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 5:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 2:57pm:

Having actual genocide, torture, sex slavery, war, highway robbery, domestic violence etc written into the Koran and Hadith does not stop you being an apologist for Islam.

What a comparison! - smearing 1.5 billion people all over the world by the actions of a few, with daring to suggest a couple of hundred protesters - a fair proportion of which are actual neo-nazis with swastikas - are racists. A muslim minding his own business in Australia has no say in being associated with head-hackers in Syria - but someone who is genuinely concerned by the threat of Islam to our liberal democracy can choose whether or not he joins hands with neo-nazis in a protest.

By the religion they choose to believe in Gandalf. Are you seriously suggesting that it is wrong to judge people by the beliefs they hold?

No I absolutely *DO* believe people should be judged by the beliefs they hold. Thats been my whole point all along actually. Fancy that!

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Stratos

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #233 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:05pm

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:53pm:

By the religion they choose to believe in Gandalf. Are you seriously suggesting that it is wrong to judge people by the beliefs they hold?

Because religions are all hive minded forms of blended consciousness that all share identical beliefs in every regard, which is why there is no division among Muslims, or any other religion Roll Eyes

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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freediver

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #234 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:03pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 7:53pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 5:02pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 2:57pm:

Having actual genocide, torture, sex slavery, war, highway robbery, domestic violence etc written into the Koran and Hadith does not stop you being an apologist for Islam.

What a comparison! - smearing 1.5 billion people all over the world by the actions of a few, with daring to suggest a couple of hundred protesters - a fair proportion of which are actual neo-nazis with swastikas - are racists. A muslim minding his own business in Australia has no say in being associated with head-hackers in Syria - but someone who is genuinely concerned by the threat of Islam to our liberal democracy can choose whether or not he joins hands with neo-nazis in a protest.

By the religion they choose to believe in Gandalf. Are you seriously suggesting that it is wrong to judge people by the beliefs they hold?

No I absolutely *DO* believe people should be judged by the beliefs they hold. Thats been my whole point all along actually. Fancy that!

You are confused Gandalf.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu Reply #235 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 8:43pm How so?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49071 At my desk.	Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu Reply #236 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 10:33pm I am not sure. Perhaps you quoted the wrong bit. The Koran and ahadiths are a bit more than merely "the actions of a few".
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polite_gandalf

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #237 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:19pm

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 10:33pm:

The Koran and ahadiths are a bit more than merely "the actions of a few"

The head-hacking interpretations are the beliefs of the few.

You don't judge muslims who reject the head-hackers version of Islam as muslims who genuinely advocate a peaceful and tolerant Islam. No, you judge them as somehow sinister. But whatever we do we mustn't unfairly judge a few protesters who choose to hold hands with neo-nazis - thats the really important thing here.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #238 - Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:39pm

Quote:

The head-hacking interpretations are the beliefs of the few.

Show me a Muslim that does not believe that Muhammed hacked the heads of hundreds of unarmed Jewish POWs in one day. Show me a Muslim that does not believe this was the right thing to do.

Are you saying we cannot judge Muslims by this because Muhammed was only one Muslim?

Quote:

But whatever we do we mustn't unfairly judge a few protesters who choose to hold hands with neo-nazis - thats the really important thing here.

That's what being an apologist is all about Gandalf.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: How is it 'racist' to protest against Islamic valu
Reply #239 - Jul 24^th, 2015 at 12:17am

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2015 at 11:39pm:

Show me a Muslim that does not believe that Muhammed hacked the heads of hundreds of unarmed Jewish POWs in one day. Show me a Muslim that does not believe this was the right thing to do.

Support for mass killings doesn't disqualify someone from being a genuine advocate for peace and tolerance. Just look at how many people still support the dropping of the atomic bombs that killed hundreds of thousands of innocents. Desperate times, drastic measures, no other choice etc etc. It doesn't matter if you think its bonkers, different people actually can think differently to you, and be sincere about it.

Somehow its ok for Christians to hold that the God who ordered the invasion and slaughter of thousands of men, women and children is also a God of peace and love - but its definitely not ok for muslims to believe Islam can be peaceful after their prophet executed men for conspiring with the army that was attempting to annihilate the muslim people.

Your problem is that you cannot accept that people can hold genuine beliefs that you find contradictory. You come up with a version of Islam based on your own ignorant understanding of the texts and prejudicial logical leaps - and completely reject the idea that muslims could believe anything else. If they claim otherwise they are liars and must be dealt with accordingly. That's the only way you could possibly find any sort of equivalence between the vast majority of peaceful and well-intentioned muslims and anti-Islam protesters who are happy to join hands with skinhead neo-nazis.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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