Karnal wrote on Jul 24^th, 2015 at 9:24pm:


The French have nothing to apologise for Karnal. Reclaim does. Hence my question about what it would take for you to become an apologist for the anti-Islam protestors. When it comes to Islam, you happily ignore a lot of the ideology because you stumbled across a few lies about Muslims on the internet. How is Reclaim any different?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 24^th, 2015 at 9:50pm:


I encourage you to try to advocate reform within Islam, but until that happens trying to portray it to non-Muslims as benign is just misrepresenting it.

How people are dealt with depends on the context. Consider the example of Nazism. If someone promotes Nazism or it's tenets, they must be countered. If they start building gas chanbers, they should be killed.

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What if it is the entire religion that is the problem? Does being a hypocrite make them wrong?

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How does that make it any better? You might as well complain that we criticise Nazis even though millions of them died in WWII.

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Impotence does not equal benign intent Brian. Nor does it make it hurt any less when your bus explodes.

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2015 at 8:53am:


umm.... right so in principle you support muslims trying to reform Islam - but if they actually start doing that in practice, they must be howled down for misrepresenting. Interesting.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 25^th, 2015 at 12:16pm:


I would suggest you follow what Tarek Fatah does and tell the truth Gandalf.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 25^th, 2015 at 12:47am:


I'll give you this much; you are articulate. But no I do not see Islam as an entity, its a frame of mind which has a varying cultural basis. The cultural differences are meaningless to the problem of continued Muslim atrocities. Here is how I see the situation now:

An intrinsic fault in the human race is that we are quite capable of believing anything, even if it is detrimental to our wellbeing. It can be argued that capitalism is detrimental when it exploits ways of killing people, but it can also be argued that societies make some effort to prevent that capacity taking charge.

Not only is no society today attempting to control the poisonous qualities in Islam, no society will officially acknowledge the problem. Twenty years of atrocities have been committed in the name of Islam against the West and other non-Muslim countries. Both Western leaders and vocal Muslims choose to explain this away as the acts of a few criminal or insane types.

Pan Arabs and associated Muslims directed their hatred at Israel in the 1950s and 60s. Because of their greater numbers and the will of God, they thought they could simply push Israel into the sea. After several ignominious defeats, the question was how could those who praise Allah be defeated? Islam sat back on its haunches with a bloody nose and began to blame the West for all its problems, and not just Israel’s existence.

It was fairly easy for the firebrands of Islam to direct the frustration of their followers at the Infidels as they call us. By the 1980 a fear spread through Islam that Western values were spreading and undermining their twelve hundred year old dogma. Under the illusion that Muslims were all equal, all they had to do was refer the faithful to the Koran. It would be ingenious if it was the work of a central authority, but it does not need such a directory. This view cites the Infidel and perhaps the Apostate as the only obstacles between the faithful and the earthly paradise of Mohammed’s psychotic delusion; a frame of mind in which he thought he was in touch with, and being directed by, a supreme being.

The Islamic delusion also states that the faithful are fulfilling God’s will, therefore they are doing what is right as it is already “written by God.” This is where murder and suicide are legitimised in their minds. When they bow down to Mecca they are not praying for the good of mankind.

Having prompted some rather feeble military responses to their attacks, Muslims now turn around use revenge as a justification for indiscriminate atrocities. It is probable that most young adults today do not remember a world without the threat of being blown to bits as pedestrians on the street by some fanatic spouting the defense of the real God and Mohammed. People may even become desensitized to the violence as if the daily news is just an extension of their video games. But a worse state of affairs is the one where the violence is shrugged off as inevitable, as if there is nowhere to place the blame.

Muslim brothers like Gandalf adopt the mannerisms of Western Objectivity to take advantage of those who wish to believe Islam is tolerant of other cultures. I stress “wish,” because being human they are quite capable of turning a blind eye to that which threatens them. Combining numbers of the timid and the appeasers it looks as if Islamic frame of mind is being successful, so they would have little to complain about if not for their own paranoia.

issuevoter wrote on Jul 25^th, 2015 at 12:58pm:


Thank you.

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Yet you write as if you do see it as an entity.  Indeed, most people do.   Islam is not Christianity.   There is no Pope, no Archbishop of Canterbury, no Grand Patriarch.   The closest you get is a college of Imans and even that is voluntary.  They can make directives but obeying them is voluntary as well.   Muslims speak basically for themselves or their congregations, nothing more.   When the media publishes a statement from a Muslim, no other Muslim has to accept it.

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However, they are.  Muslim atrocities occur usually because of local conditions/complaints, not because they are being directed.  When IS claims a Terrorist attack as one of their own, invariably it is them taking advantage of an individual's act(s).   The individual may have done them to support IS but in reality they are almost completely unconnected.   Al Q'aeda was much closer to a centrally commanded Terrorist group and even that was done on the basis of "franchises" which utilised localised Islamist Terrorist groups, each with their own, individual complaint as to why they existed and did things.

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Yet you consider them to be automatically wrong.  Despite their intimate knowledge of the motivators which motivate the individual doing the acts, you put it all down to their belief in Islam, no matter any other factor.   You don't think that is rather Islamophobic of you?   Do you believe the same thing when a Christian commits a Terrorist act?

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Some do.  Most don't.   Care to explain how Egypt and Jordan, both Muslim nations were able to respectively sign separate peace treaties with Israel?

Moreover, what did Israel and the Palestinian Question have to do with say, 11 September?  While bin Laden threw it in, as a reason why his group committed that Terrorist Act, it was more of an afterthought than a dedicated belief/reason.   

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You are not reforming Islam. You are offering mindnumbing platitudes to non-Muslims.

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I see you are getting a handle on this context thing Gandalf. Well done. What do you think the answer is?

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 25^th, 2015 at 12:47am:

Yeah, Islam is at war with itself.

Everyone knows that.



But why are non-Muslims countries drawn into this war? I am happy for Muslims to stay in their own Muslim countries and duke it out to the death.

I am not happy about them coming to the West  bringing their war with them and living it their internal conflicts here.

Leave Islam behind if you want to come to the West.