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The Myth of the 97% consensus claim (Read 38165 times)
ImSpartacus2
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #165 - Aug 8th, 2015 at 9:29pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 8th, 2015 at 6:34pm:
It's fascinating watching the climate hysterics absolutely and totally reject the PROOF that the '97% consensus' claim was bogus and borderline fraud.

AS if te mere notion of 97% consensus on ANYTHING is likely, nevermind on a  controversial topic like this.


Longy


...
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longweekend58
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #166 - Aug 9th, 2015 at 1:40pm
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Aug 8th, 2015 at 9:29pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 8th, 2015 at 6:34pm:
It's fascinating watching the climate hysterics absolutely and totally reject the PROOF that the '97% consensus' claim was bogus and borderline fraud.

AS if te mere notion of 97% consensus on ANYTHING is likely, nevermind on a  controversial topic like this.


Longy


http://www.sarahpinnix.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/5655609277_97da5918bb_o.jp...


and unsurprisingly, you are unable to debate the point because you are secretly embarrassed to have been some comprehensively SUCKED IN to such an obvious and transparent claim.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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The_Barnacle
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #167 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 11:36am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2015 at 3:48pm:
barely true and mostly not. when the antarctic ice warms from -74C to -73.4C, how much water  is formed?  NONE


fake hydrologist.


Wow longy if you really are a hydrologist then I can only guess that you are being deliberately misleading to try and win an argument. It doesn't reflect too well on you.

Of course ice in the interior of Antarctica is too cold to melt, but the ice on the Antarctic coast is much closer to 0 degrees and much of it has been melting.

You would also know that when ice that is on land melts into the oceans it increases the sea level.

You would also know that when water warms it thermally expands, which also increases the sea level.

As for the 97% I am far more inclined to believe a scientific organisation like NASA than a right wing ideological group funded by the fossil fuel industry.

Quote:
Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources.

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
 
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rabbitoh08
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #168 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:28pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 9th, 2015 at 1:40pm:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Aug 8th, 2015 at 9:29pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 8th, 2015 at 6:34pm:
It's fascinating watching the climate hysterics absolutely and totally reject the PROOF that the '97% consensus' claim was bogus and borderline fraud.

AS if te mere notion of 97% consensus on ANYTHING is likely, nevermind on a  controversial topic like this.


Longy


http://www.sarahpinnix.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/5655609277_97da5918bb_o.jp...


and unsurprisingly, you are unable to debate the point because you are secretly embarrassed to have been some comprehensively SUCKED IN to such an obvious and transparent claim.

Heh!!!

This from the guy that tells us "NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming".  But when asked (over and over again) fails to show any evidence of this whatsoever. 

It appears that you are a liar.

Don't you have anything to say in your own defence?

(And please - no more evasion.  Don't give us that tired old "I already showed you" routine again.  You know you haven't.  You are not fooling anybody.)
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rabbitoh08
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #169 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:35pm
 
lee wrote on Aug 7th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Yes - that North Atlantic Sea Surface temperature graph is interesting.

But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?

the same website you are quoting from has global ocean temperature as well:
0 - 100m:
...

and 0 - 700m
...
http://www.climate4you.com

Why didn't you show us these graphs instead?

make it fairly clear don't they, that the planet is warming.

And makes Longy's claim that:
"NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming" seem very, ,very silly.

Doesn't seem to be any pause in the warming of the world's oceans, does there Longy?

You told a lie - didn't you Longy.
NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM DIDN'T all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming, did they.

You just made that up - then ran away like a little girl when called on it
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Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #170 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:38pm
 
Uh oh someones cherry picking
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #171 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:51pm
 
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:35pm:
lee wrote on Aug 7th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Yes - that North Atlantic Sea Surface temperature graph is interesting.

But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?

the same website you are quoting from has global ocean temperature as well:
0 - 100m:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1955Depth0-100m.gif

and 0 - 700m
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1979Depth0-700m.gif
http://www.climate4you.com

Why didn't you show us these graphs instead?

make it fairly clear don't they, that the planet is warming.

And makes Longy's claim that:
"NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming" seem very, ,very silly.

Doesn't seem to be any pause in the warming of the world's oceans, does there Longy?

You told a lie - didn't you Longy.
NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM DIDN'T all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming, did they.

You just made that up - then ran away like a little girl when called on it


"This is what the NASA release is addressing:

In the 21st century, greenhouse gases have continued to accumulate in the atmosphere, just as they did in the 20th century, but global average surface air temperatures have stopped rising in tandem with the gases. The temperature of the top half of the world’s oceans — above the 1.24-mile mark — is still climbing, but not fast enough to account for the stalled air temperatures.

Many processes on land, air and sea have been invoked to explain what is happening to the “missing” heat. One of the most prominent ideas is that the bottom half of the ocean is taking up the slack, but supporting evidence is slim. This latest study is the first to test the idea using satellite observations, as well as direct temperature measurements of the upper ocean. Scientists have been taking the temperature of the top half of the ocean directly since 2005, using a network of 3,000 floating temperature probes called the Argo array.

“The deep parts of the ocean are harder to measure,” said JPL’s William Llovel, lead author of the study published Sunday in the journal Nature Climate Change. “The combination of satellite and direct temperature data gives us a glimpse of how much sea level rise is due to deep warming. The answer is — not much.”
In summary, NASA reports that deep ocean water temperatures neither explain the increase in ocean surface temperatures, nor why global temperatures appear to have paused in recent years."

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/10/185975-nasa-report-released-deep-ocean-waters-sh...
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

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rabbitoh08
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #172 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:51pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:38pm:
Uh oh someones cherry picking

Yes.  Between Lee's cherry picking and Longy's flat-out lying - these deniers show themselves to be a pretty sad and ignorant bunch.
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rabbitoh08
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #173 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:55pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:51pm:
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:35pm:
lee wrote on Aug 7th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Yes - that North Atlantic Sea Surface temperature graph is interesting.

But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?

the same website you are quoting from has global ocean temperature as well:
0 - 100m:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1955Depth0-100m.gif

and 0 - 700m
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1979Depth0-700m.gif
http://www.climate4you.com

Why didn't you show us these graphs instead?

make it fairly clear don't they, that the planet is warming.

And makes Longy's claim that:
"NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming" seem very, ,very silly.

Doesn't seem to be any pause in the warming of the world's oceans, does there Longy?

You told a lie - didn't you Longy.
NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM DIDN'T all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming, did they.

You just made that up - then ran away like a little girl when called on it


"This is what the NASA release is addressing:

In the 21st century, greenhouse gases have continued to accumulate in the atmosphere, just as they did in the 20th century, but global average surface air temperatures have stopped rising in tandem with the gases. The temperature of the top half of the world’s oceans — above the 1.24-mile mark — is still climbing, but not fast enough to account for the stalled air temperatures.

Many processes on land, air and sea have been invoked to explain what is happening to the “missing” heat. One of the most prominent ideas is that the bottom half of the ocean is taking up the slack, but supporting evidence is slim. This latest study is the first to test the idea using satellite observations, as well as direct temperature measurements of the upper ocean. Scientists have been taking the temperature of the top half of the ocean directly since 2005, using a network of 3,000 floating temperature probes called the Argo array.

“The deep parts of the ocean are harder to measure,” said JPL’s William Llovel, lead author of the study published Sunday in the journal Nature Climate Change. “The combination of satellite and direct temperature data gives us a glimpse of how much sea level rise is due to deep warming. The answer is — not much.”
In summary, NASA reports that deep ocean water temperatures neither explain the increase in ocean surface temperatures, nor why global temperatures appear to have paused in recent years."

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/10/185975-nasa-report-released-deep-ocean-waters-sh...

Is there a reason you posted this quote without explanation?

What exactly are you trying to tell us?
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #174 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 1:04pm
 
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:55pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:51pm:
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:35pm:
lee wrote on Aug 7th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Yes - that North Atlantic Sea Surface temperature graph is interesting.

But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?

the same website you are quoting from has global ocean temperature as well:
0 - 100m:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1955Depth0-100m.gif

and 0 - 700m
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1979Depth0-700m.gif
http://www.climate4you.com

Why didn't you show us these graphs instead?

make it fairly clear don't they, that the planet is warming.

And makes Longy's claim that:
"NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming" seem very, ,very silly.

Doesn't seem to be any pause in the warming of the world's oceans, does there Longy?

You told a lie - didn't you Longy.
NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM DIDN'T all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming, did they.

You just made that up - then ran away like a little girl when called on it


"This is what the NASA release is addressing:

In the 21st century, greenhouse gases have continued to accumulate in the atmosphere, just as they did in the 20th century, but global average surface air temperatures have stopped rising in tandem with the gases. The temperature of the top half of the world’s oceans — above the 1.24-mile mark — is still climbing, but not fast enough to account for the stalled air temperatures.

Many processes on land, air and sea have been invoked to explain what is happening to the “missing” heat. One of the most prominent ideas is that the bottom half of the ocean is taking up the slack, but supporting evidence is slim. This latest study is the first to test the idea using satellite observations, as well as direct temperature measurements of the upper ocean. Scientists have been taking the temperature of the top half of the ocean directly since 2005, using a network of 3,000 floating temperature probes called the Argo array.

“The deep parts of the ocean are harder to measure,” said JPL’s William Llovel, lead author of the study published Sunday in the journal Nature Climate Change. “The combination of satellite and direct temperature data gives us a glimpse of how much sea level rise is due to deep warming. The answer is — not much.”
In summary, NASA reports that deep ocean water temperatures neither explain the increase in ocean surface temperatures, nor why global temperatures appear to have paused in recent years."

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/10/185975-nasa-report-released-deep-ocean-waters-sh...

Is there a reason you posted this quote without explanation?

What exactly are you trying to tell us?


That Nasa, in this particular paper admitted they couldn't explain the 'slow-down' (or hiatus) in temperature increases in recent years.

I know you're a bit slow....but surely the highlighted sections are self-explanatory (to rational people, anyway)
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Kiron22
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #175 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 1:33pm
 
Why are people bothering to argue with Longy? He is clearly a troll or mentally retarded.
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lee
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #176 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 2:01pm
 
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:35pm:
But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?



Ok let's do your graphs.

Graph A - 0.4/60 = .0066 0r .066C/decade

Graph B - 0.15/35 = .004 or .04C/decade

Now the data is sparse but it seems the trend over the last 35 years is lower than the overall trend. Also of course measurement accuracy is doubtful; especially as the early years depend on "noisy" data from ships. Measurement accuracy includes both observational and instrumental accuracy. Instrumental accuracy cannot be averaged out.

The adjusted Argo data shows .023C/decade; but Argo buoys have only been place since 2000.

Do you expect coming out of the LIA that there would be no warming?

There has been a 30% increase in CO2 since the 90's, any rise due to CO2 is in the noise. Of course El Nino's, a sun warming event, is natural.
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« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2015 at 2:11pm by lee »  
 
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longweekend58
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #177 - Aug 10th, 2015 at 4:32pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 11:36am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2015 at 3:48pm:
barely true and mostly not. when the antarctic ice warms from -74C to -73.4C, how much water  is formed?  NONE


fake hydrologist.


Wow longy if you really are a hydrologist then I can only guess that you are being deliberately misleading to try and win an argument. It doesn't reflect too well on you.

Of course ice in the interior of Antarctica is too cold to melt, but the ice on the Antarctic coast is much closer to 0 degrees and much of it has been melting.

You would also know that when ice that is on land melts into the oceans it increases the sea level.

You would also know that when water warms it thermally expands, which also increases the sea level.

As for the 97% I am far more inclined to believe a scientific organisation like NASA than a right wing ideological group funded by the fossil fuel industry.

Quote:
Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources.

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
 


perhaps you should open a crack in that mind of your just enough to see that the rebuttal to the 97% consensus nonsense was done by... climate scientists.  you know the type - seeking answers instead of ideology? No, perhaps you don't.

Your lot really struggle with ANY fact that disagrees or doesn't fit 100% in line with your doctrine, don't you?
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rabbitoh08
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #178 - Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:39pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 1:04pm:
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:55pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:51pm:
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:35pm:
lee wrote on Aug 7th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Yes - that North Atlantic Sea Surface temperature graph is interesting.

But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?

the same website you are quoting from has global ocean temperature as well:
0 - 100m:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1955Depth0-100m.gif

and 0 - 700m
http://www.climate4you.com/images/World3monthTemperatureSince1979Depth0-700m.gif
http://www.climate4you.com

Why didn't you show us these graphs instead?

make it fairly clear don't they, that the planet is warming.

And makes Longy's claim that:
"NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming" seem very, ,very silly.

Doesn't seem to be any pause in the warming of the world's oceans, does there Longy?

You told a lie - didn't you Longy.
NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM DIDN'T all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming, did they.

You just made that up - then ran away like a little girl when called on it


"This is what the NASA release is addressing:

In the 21st century, greenhouse gases have continued to accumulate in the atmosphere, just as they did in the 20th century, but global average surface air temperatures have stopped rising in tandem with the gases. The temperature of the top half of the world’s oceans — above the 1.24-mile mark — is still climbing, but not fast enough to account for the stalled air temperatures.

Many processes on land, air and sea have been invoked to explain what is happening to the “missing” heat. One of the most prominent ideas is that the bottom half of the ocean is taking up the slack, but supporting evidence is slim. This latest study is the first to test the idea using satellite observations, as well as direct temperature measurements of the upper ocean. Scientists have been taking the temperature of the top half of the ocean directly since 2005, using a network of 3,000 floating temperature probes called the Argo array.

“The deep parts of the ocean are harder to measure,” said JPL’s William Llovel, lead author of the study published Sunday in the journal Nature Climate Change. “The combination of satellite and direct temperature data gives us a glimpse of how much sea level rise is due to deep warming. The answer is — not much.”
In summary, NASA reports that deep ocean water temperatures neither explain the increase in ocean surface temperatures, nor why global temperatures appear to have paused in recent years."

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/10/185975-nasa-report-released-deep-ocean-waters-sh...

Is there a reason you posted this quote without explanation?

What exactly are you trying to tell us?


That Nasa, in this particular paper admitted they couldn't explain the 'slow-down' (or hiatus) in temperature increases in recent years.

I know you're a bit slow....but surely the highlighted sections are self-explanatory (to rational people, anyway)

But it does nothing to change the simple fact that the planet is clearly warming.

Surface temperatures are still clearly increasing, and remain at historically high levels.  Even recent La Nina years are among the warmest ever recorded.

Oceans are clearly warming - though not below 700m as was initially expected.

The cryosphere is still clearly decreasing.

THe planet is clearly and unambiguously warming.  Yes - there is some uncertainty as to why surface temperatures (a very small part of the global heat budget) seem to be increasing a a slower rate than other parts of the system - but the planet is still clearly and unambiguously warming.  That quote does nothing to pace any doubt in this.  All is does is say no increase has yet been measured in the ocean abyss .

It certainly does nothing to support Longy's often repeated lie:   

"NOAA, NASA, MET and BOM all agree that there has been a "pause in global warming"

Notice how he is still running away from that lie?
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rabbitoh08
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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #179 - Aug 11th, 2015 at 12:40pm
 
lee wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 2:01pm:
rabbitoh08 wrote on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:35pm:
But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?



Ok let's do your graphs.

Graph A - 0.4/60 = .0066 0r .066C/decade

Graph B - 0.15/35 = .004 or .04C/decade

Now the data is sparse but it seems the trend over the last 35 years is lower than the overall trend. Also of course measurement accuracy is doubtful; especially as the early years depend on "noisy" data from ships. Measurement accuracy includes both observational and instrumental accuracy. Instrumental accuracy cannot be averaged out.

The adjusted Argo data shows .023C/decade; but Argo buoys have only been place since 2000.

Do you expect coming out of the LIA that there would be no warming?

There has been a 30% increase in CO2 since the 90's, any rise due to CO2 is in the noise. Of course El Nino's, a sun warming event, is natural.

But why just select one small portion of the world's ocean?  And why select just the tiny fraction of that ocean that is the surface temperature?

Were you trying to be deliberately dishonest?
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