Australian Politics Forum - The Myth of the 97% consensus claim

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #330 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 8:32pm Then why was that farmer on LandLine saying he had to change the variety of wheat that he grew and that he could see that in 20 years time wheat would no longer be viable? Why are vineyards being planted in Tassie and England? Why is spring arriving earlier?
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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #331 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 8:41pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 8:32pm:

Then why was that farmer on LandLine saying he had to change the variety of wheat that he grew and that he could see that in 20 years time wheat would no longer be viable?

Why are vineyards being planted in Tassie and England? Why is spring arriving earlier?

Because the world is returning, naturally, to the temperatures that existed before the Little Ice Age period (from around 1500 to around 1850).

The Romans had vineyards in Northern England too, remember??

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #332 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 8:47pm No, I think temperatures are way beyond anything in the MWP. Due to the amount of CO2 in the air.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #333 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 9:11pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 8:47pm:

No, I think temperatures are way beyond anything in the MWP. Due to the amount of CO2 in the air.

Unlikely Monk, perhaps close to the MWP but not above it, and not close to the Roman Warm Period. And none of those were as warm as either of the 2 Holocene Climate Optimums that happened between the last glacial maximum, and the Minoan Warm Period.

Co2 is at best a very minor positive feedback in the climate cycle, and even then, the human contribution is only a fraction of the total Co2 input per year.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Jovial Monk

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #334 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 9:33pm

Well above it, gizmo. You tried to bullshit me about the MWP once before and I tracked down your reference and showed it did not say what you said it did.

CO2 in the atmosphere is higher than in the MWP, that is forcing the higher temperatures.

Seems the MWP is the new rallying point for deniers, like I said earlier, a more sophisticated version of the old BS argument “the climate is always changing.”

Yet AGW is here and now.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #335 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 9:50pm

mariacostel wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 6:14pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 6:10pm:

I meant the deniers pretending the MWP was warmer than thought. Just lies, clumsy lies.

AGW is NOW forcing the man on the land to change crops or buy land in cooler areas. That is happening NOW!

Firstly, it isnt 'deniers' as you so limply claim. It is scientist and historians of ALL ILKS that claim the MVP was warmer than now. In fact, most scientific bodies say the same thing. NONE say the MVP didnt exist and the best you will get is thet the MVP is the same temp as now. Either way, it shows that current warming is not unprecedented and also largely NOT anthropogenic.

And quoting a few farmers changing crops is not evidence of 'farmers moving to cooler climates' coz none of them are.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that your claims are correct because "most scientific bodies say the same thing" and then deny AGW even though those same scientific bodies (100% of the time honoured ones that have successfully guided civilisation's scientific and technological knowledge for decades) are also saying that AGW is happening and is real.

But what is most surprising is that you happily cut and paste and regurgitate the same slop from these denialist sites without the slightest concern that they might be compromised by their connections to the fossil fuel industry. Any rational human being would be concerned about that and yet it doesn't bother you at all.

And what's even more surprising is that you didnt even bother replying to the first hand accounts of those reputable businesses involved in the wine industry who make it there business to know about the climate that the climate is warming and effecting their crops. Those people you can simply dismiss and yet continue cutting and pasting this garbage from those compromised sites. There's nothing honest about your approach.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #336 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 9:55pm

Soren wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 7:22pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 7:18pm:

There is also much more CO2 in the air now compared to then put there by our burning fossil fuels so very obviously the warming now IS anthropogenic. This isn’t hard to work out.

This denier crap about the MWP is just a slightly more sophisticated version of “climate has always changed.”

Human contribution of atmospheric CO2 is 0.005% of total atmospheric gases.

That is not a controlling influence. Not even remotely.

The world can't be flat or we'd all fall off the edge. Grin

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #337 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:04pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 8:25pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

I got an education, I think you envy those that did, Longy.

There is no longer an argument about the existence of AGW, it is here and hitting the man on the land. We had a very cold winter this year courtesy of Antarctic air that escaped north, easy to extrapolate that Eastern States winters are going to get much colder.

The huge El Nino forming in the Pacific will likely write finis to all the denialist crap around.

There has never been any argument about GW, but AGW is a very different thing.

And most of the multi-generational farmers around here would laugh in your face, if you told them that human-caused climate change had anything to do with the current weather/climate or growing conditions.

And you would disagree with them of course wouldnt you? After all, I believe you told us a week ago that you do not deny global warming but rather you're skeptical about it. Which suggests to me that you don't regard the idea laughable. In fact it suggests that you regard it as plausible even though you are not convinced. Is that an accurate assessment of your position???

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Ajax

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #338 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:10pm

Quote:

Saturday, 18 April 2009

CO2 levels may have been over 2000ppm in 1200AD

Another inconvenient truth for warmists. New research suggests that the co2 level of the atmosphere was a lot higher during the Medieval Warm Period than today.

First lets look at a paper that shaped the modern view of past co2 levels.

180 Years of atmospheric CO2 Gas Analysis by Chemical Methods, published in the prestigous Journal "Energy and Environment" by Dr Ernst-Georg Beck.

http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2_supp.htm

The paper is also covered in the media:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6855

Below I have reproduced some of the data from this study for the purpose of scientific analysis. This data shows that co2 levels were much higher than today in 1940 and 1827:

http://denialdepot.blogspot.com.au/2009/04/co2-levels-may-have-been-over-2000ppm...

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #339 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:14pm May have been ok.
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ImSpartacus2

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #340 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:15pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:10pm:

http://i58.tinypic.com/10dtx0o.jpg

Quote:

Saturday, 18 April 2009

CO2 levels may have been over 2000ppm in 1200AD

Another inconvenient truth for warmists. New research suggests that the co2 level of the atmosphere was a lot higher during the Medieval Warm Period than today.

First lets look at a paper that shaped the modern view of past co2 levels.

180 Years of atmospheric CO2 Gas Analysis by Chemical Methods, published in the prestigous Journal "Energy and Environment" by Dr Ernst-Georg Beck.

http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2_supp.htm

The paper is also covered in the media:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6855

Below I have reproduced some of the data from this study for the purpose of scientific analysis. This data shows that co2 levels were much higher than today in 1940 and 1827:

http://denialdepot.blogspot.com.au/2009/04/co2-levels-may-have-been-over-2000ppm...

Oh look it's Ajax. The old hand at cutting and pasting. You've become quite the expert at cutting and pasting. Pity you don't know sh!t about climate science.

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 10975 Australia Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #341 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:25pm Spartacus this is for you dear friend...... http://www.biomind.de/nogreenhouse/daten/EE%2018-2_Beck.pdf
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #342 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:30pm Looks like the MWP is going to be the denialists last stand. Don’t they know, the war is over and they lost. They are just looking silly and desperate now.
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Ajax

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #343 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:43pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:30pm:

Looks like the MWP is going to be the denialists last stand. Don’t they know, the war is over and they lost. They are just looking silly and desperate now.

When the majority of people realise they are being taken for a ride.

You my dear cobber and guys like Spartacus will have sore behinds.

I hope they wear steel capped boots...... Tongue

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #344 - Sep 6^th, 2015 at 10:50pm I think people are going to be pee’d off at those who tried to pretend AGW wasn’t happening either because they were afraid of change or because they were happy, even paid, to front for fossil fuel interests. I fear you will be copping more than boots.
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