Australian Politics Forum - The Myth of the 97% consensus claim

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17316 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #495 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:56pm Unforgiven wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:53pm: Mean cumulative mass balance of all reported glaciers is declining at an accelerating rate. Can you please quote the scientific report that says glaciers should be static? Melting glaciers have uncovered Roman mines and roads.
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mariacostel

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #496 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:01pm

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:53pm:

Mean cumulative mass balance of all reported glaciers is declining at an accelerating rate.

http://wgms.ch/latest-glacier-mass-balance-data/
http://wgms.diff.ch/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Mean-cumulative-mass-balance-of-a...

Quote:

latest glacier mass balance data
1 Summary of the balance years 2012/13 and 2013/14
Mass balance values for the observation period 2012/13 have been reported from more than 125 glaciers worldwide. The mass balance statistics (Table 1) are calculated based on all reported values and on available data from the 37 reference glaciers in ten mountain ranges (Table 2) with continuous observation series back to 1980. In addition, preliminary mass balance values are given for 2013/14 for the reference glaciers only.

The average mass balance of the glaciers with available long-term observation series around the world continues to be negative, with tentative figures indicating a further thickness reduction of 0.89 metres water equivalent (m w.e.) during the hydrological year 2013. The new data continues the global trend in strong ice loss over the past few decades and brings the cumulative average thickness loss of the reference glaciers since 1980 at 17.5 m w.e. (see Figures 1 and 2). All so far reported mass balance values given in Table 3, are tentative.

Table 1: Overview on mass balance data 2012/13 and preliminary values for 2013/14 (only reference glaciers). Statistics are given for all reported glaciers (ALL) and for the available ‘reference’ glaciers with continuous long-term observation series (REF).

Glacial retreat and increase is all part of natural variability and have occurred multiple times in the past. That would explain why a few retreating glaciers are exposing former villages from over a thousand years ago. It has all happened before.

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Soren

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #497 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:11pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 6^th, 2015 at 9:13am:

[quote author=ImSpartacus2 link=1437466191/283#283 date=1441445882]

despicable charlatans like Soren and longy have sought to obfuscate and misinform for their fanatical ideological purposes, there are the honest people who in their daily lives see climate change first hand and speak of it, not as conjecture but as the reality that they have to contend with if their industry is to survive.

Kim Il-Jong is looking for a speech writer, Bozo. You ought to apply.

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Unforgiven

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #498 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:22pm

lee wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:53pm:

Mean cumulative mass balance of all reported glaciers is declining at an accelerating rate.

Can you please quote the scientific report that says glaciers should be static?

Melting glaciers have uncovered Roman mines and roads.

In Alaska? Or in lee's mind?

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“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan

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lee

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #499 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:51pm

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:22pm:

In Alaska? Or in lee's mind?

'Many glaciers in the Alps apparently retreated from about 300 BC to about 400 AD (Delibrias et al. 1975). At that time they probably were comparable in size or even less extensive as today, as is indicated by Roman gold mines established high up in the Alps in the Sonnblick area (Austria). '

'It appears that after the collapse of the Roman Empire in AD 476 some of the mines were blocked by advancing glaciers, and therefore given up. The entrance to some of these mines are probably still covered by glacier ice while others have only recently come to light as the glacier retreated in the 20th century (Lamb 1977, 1995).'

http://www.climate4you.com/ClimateAndHistory%200-1000.htm

I'm sorry your limited search skills failed to uncover these,

Alaska?

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mariacostel

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #500 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 9:48am

lee wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:51pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:22pm:

In Alaska? Or in lee's mind?

'Many glaciers in the Alps apparently retreated from about 300 BC to about 400 AD (Delibrias et al. 1975). At that time they probably were comparable in size or even less extensive as today, as is indicated by Roman gold mines established high up in the Alps in the Sonnblick area (Austria). '

'It appears that after the collapse of the Roman Empire in AD 476 some of the mines were blocked by advancing glaciers, and therefore given up. The entrance to some of these mines are probably still covered by glacier ice while others have only recently come to light as the glacier retreated in the 20th century (Lamb 1977, 1995).'

http://www.climate4you.com/ClimateAndHistory%200-1000.htm

I'm sorry your limited search skills failed to uncover these,

Alaska?

The retreat of glaciers and even polar ice is a constant attribute of natural variability. It would be funny if it weren't that serious that somehow, changes that have occurred all through history are now catastrophic and 'our fault'. There is zero logic in any of it.

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mariacostel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7344 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #501 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 6:26pm Spartacus is certainly refusing to re-engage the debate. No surprise really since his argument was clearly destroyed - such as it was.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #502 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 6:28pm And yet AGW still goes on.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17316 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #503 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 6:32pm I see the deniers are here. What measurement has been made of AGW?
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mariacostel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7344 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #504 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:05pm Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 6:28pm: And yet AGW still goes on. Proof please. Of course you won't do that! You read it in a 15yos blog and what else do you need after that?
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mariacostel

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #505 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:19pm

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 6:32pm:

I see the deniers are here. What measurement has been made of AGW?

Well let's see. Over 50 years the temperature rose about 0.6 degrees and hasn't risen in nearly 20 years. IN addition to that the current temperature is slightly BELOW that of the average from the last millenium.

So what exactly is everyone carrying on about when absolutely nothing is happening that is even remotely unusual?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17316 Gender:	Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim Reply #506 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:23pm They get their information from NASA/NOOA.They don't realise that the historical data has been adjusted. Even more so now that NASA/NOOA are using the adjustments from the Tom Karl paper.
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mariacostel

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #507 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:41pm

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

They get their information from NASA/NOOA.They don't realise that the historical data has been adjusted. Even more so now that NASA/NOOA are using the adjustments from the Tom Karl paper.

Frankly that is a scandal that could bring down a lot of people. The same with BoM. They are altering historical data and hiding how they do it. It all smells of the Hockey Stick methodology of lying, obsfucating and denial. But in the end, truth wins out. After all, the planet refuses to get warmer and fudged figures or not, eventually you can't hide that.

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Unforgiven

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #508 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 10:04pm

mariacostel wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:41pm:

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:23pm:

They get their information from NASA/NOOA.They don't realise that the historical data has been adjusted. Even more so now that NASA/NOOA are using the adjustments from the Tom Karl paper.

Frankly that is a scandal that could bring down a lot of people. The same with BoM. They are altering historical data and hiding how they do it. It all smells of the Hockey Stick methodology of lying, obsfucating and denial. But in the end, truth wins out. After all, the planet refuses to get warmer and fudged figures or not, eventually you can't hide that.

Is that why 2015 is heading to be the hottest year on record? Maria Costel is psychotic. She only believes the voices in her head.

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“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan

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Ajax

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Re: The Myth of the 97% consensus claim
Reply #509 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 11:42pm

The Arctic melting and reforming has been going on for a very long time.

September 1957 - arctic decreases by 40%

May 1947 - arctic melting

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22429983?searchTerm=climate%20change&sea...

November 1922 - arctic melting

http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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