Australian Politics Forum - The Writing Challenge: Making your argument

longweekend58

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The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Jul 27^th, 2015 at 10:03am

It would be fair to say

that most debates on here are rarely anything even close to the meaning of the word. For some, their only mission in life is to oppose what the other party says without any reference to the merits (or otherwise) of the policy. The true challenge is when you are asked to make an argument for a policy you actually oppose and this happens in real life more often than you would think. Marketers are asked to write copy for products or services they dont like or even detest. Politicians are often asked to publicly support policies they private oppose, sometimes vehemently.

Being asked to prepare a defense for a position you normally oppose can stretch not only your abilities, but also your preconceptions. It wouldn't be the first time that someone asked to do this makes such a compelling argument that they end up changing their own position. It is easy to make an argument for what you believe in. Making an argument for what you oppose develops skills and exposes ability and bias. It forces you to not just read the opposing argument, but to understand it.

Now, we have tried before to get something like this started and those with ability to be part of it declined to participate. So let's try again.

The challenge is simple: write a 600-1500 word article on a topic where you support a position you would normally be opposed to. It can be an opinion article or it can be more of a research-type effort. It is all up to you, including the topic. Post it in the General forum and see how it fares.

NOTE: there are no winners and losers. The only way you can lose is to throw a tantrum and claim someone plagiarised or didnt write the article (as Karnal and Aussie did). It is about making effort, not producing War and Peace. Some are far better writers than others, but that's also not the point. It is about the exercise of looking over the ideological fence and spending some time walking (and writing) in their shoes.

This can be fun, challenging and mutually entertaining. The only way it can fail is for people to refuse to participate.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30111 Gender:	Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument Reply #1 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 10:44am Quote: Man made global warming is bullshit because I am a greedy and selfish son of a bitch and I don't won't anything effecting my shares in polluting coal and power generation, nor my rights to drive around in an inefficient gas guzzling polluting pile of crap !! Hows that for starters LOL
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longweekend58

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #2 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 11:58am

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 10:44am:

Quote:

Man made global warming is bullshit because I am a greedy and selfish son of a bitch and I don't won't anything effecting my shares in polluting coal and power generation, nor my rights to drive around in an inefficient gas guzzling polluting pile of crap !!

Hows that for starters Cheesy

LOL

If that is your article then I am impressed. One sentence would be your limit, but two full lines is more than I expected.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument Reply #3 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:29pm This subject has the appearance of longweekend58 inducing people to become his stooges and develop his arguments for him. longweekend58 has never backed up his arguments with facts or evidence.
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Aussie

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #4 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:39pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

It would be fair to say

that most debates on here are rarely anything even close to the meaning of the word. For some, their only mission in life is to oppose what the other party says without any reference to the merits (or otherwise) of the policy. The true challenge is when you are asked to make an argument for a policy you actually oppose and this happens in real life more often than you would think. Marketers are asked to write copy for products or services they dont like or even detest. Politicians are often asked to publicly support policies they private oppose, sometimes vehemently.

Being asked to prepare a defense for a position you normally oppose can stretch not only your abilities, but also your preconceptions. It wouldn't be the first time that someone asked to do this makes such a compelling argument that they end up changing their own position. It is easy to make an argument for what you believe in. Making an argument for what you oppose develops skills and exposes ability and bias. It forces you to not just read the opposing argument, but to understand it.

Now, we have tried before to get something like this started and those with ability to be part of it declined to participate. So let's try again.

The challenge is simple: write a 600-1500 word article on a topic where you support a position you would normally be opposed to. It can be an opinion article or it can be more of a research-type effort. It is all up to you, including the topic. Post it in the General forum and see how it fares.

NOTE: there are no winners and losers. The only way you can lose is to throw a tantrum and claim someone plagiarised or didnt write the article (as Karnal and Aussie did). It is about making effort, not producing War and Peace. Some are far better writers than others, but that's also not the point. It is about the exercise of looking over the ideological fence and spending some time walking (and writing) in their shoes.

This can be fun, challenging and mutually entertaining. The only way it can fail is for people to refuse to participate.

If anyone buys into this, they are an all day sucker ~ unless they are part of the melielongtime forelock tuggers. Both Karnal and I did exactly what he asked which was to produce a piece on a subject we do not personally support. Problem was, melielongtime refused to meet his own terms, threw Teddy and 'he' produced some fantasy based on some fairytale opinions of a make believe Scandinavian Professor!

Contrary to his implied assertion in that propaganda piece, he then proceeded to mark 'his' home work as fantastic and that of mine and Karnal's, a fail.

Nah.

He had his chance, and he well and truly blew it.

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longweekend58

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #5 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:42pm

Unforgiven wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:29pm:

This subject has the appearance of longweekend58 inducing people to become his stooges and develop his arguments for him.

longweekend58 has never backed up his arguments with facts or evidence.

You could always try the challenge, but I doubt you even understand what it is, nevermind how to do it.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #6 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 12:19pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

It would be fair to say

that most debates on here are rarely anything even close to the meaning of the word. For some, their only mission in life is to oppose what the other party says without any reference to the merits (or otherwise) of the policy. The true challenge is when you are asked to make an argument for a policy you actually oppose and this happens in real life more often than you would think. Marketers are asked to write copy for products or services they dont like or even detest. Politicians are often asked to publicly support policies they private oppose, sometimes vehemently.

Being asked to prepare a defense for a position you normally oppose can stretch not only your abilities, but also your preconceptions. It wouldn't be the first time that someone asked to do this makes such a compelling argument that they end up changing their own position. It is easy to make an argument for what you believe in. Making an argument for what you oppose develops skills and exposes ability and bias. It forces you to not just read the opposing argument, but to understand it.

Now, we have tried before to get something like this started and those with ability to be part of it declined to participate. So let's try again.

The challenge is simple: write a 600-1500 word article on a topic where you support a position you would normally be opposed to. It can be an opinion article or it can be more of a research-type effort. It is all up to you, including the topic. Post it in the General forum and see how it fares.

NOTE: there are no winners and losers. The only way you can lose is to throw a tantrum and claim someone plagiarised or didnt write the article (as Karnal and Aussie did). It is about making effort, not producing War and Peace. Some are far better writers than others, but that's also not the point. It is about the exercise of looking over the ideological fence and spending some time walking (and writing) in their shoes.

This can be fun, challenging and mutually entertaining. The only way it can fail is for people to refuse to participate.

If anyone buys into this, they are an all day sucker ~ unless they are part of the melielongtime forelock tuggers. Both Karnal and I did exactly what he asked which was to produce a piece on a subject we do not personally support. Problem was, melielongtime refused to meet his own terms, threw Teddy and 'he' produced some fantasy based on some fairytale opinions of a make believe Scandinavian Professor!

Contrary to his implied assertion in that propaganda piece, he then proceeded to mark 'his' home work as fantastic and that of mine and Karnal's, a fail.

Nah.

He had his chance, and he well and truly blew it.

you and karnal said mine was plagiarised which is an instant 'fail' for both of you and that is before you wrote your pitiful rubbish.

and like the lying scumbag you are, you said you and karnal were writing your next articles and then they mysteriosuly failed to appear.

fake lawyer.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #7 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:26pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

It would be fair to say

that most debates on here are rarely anything even close to the meaning of the word. For some, their only mission in life is to oppose what the other party says without any reference to the merits (or otherwise) of the policy. The true challenge is when you are asked to make an argument for a policy you actually oppose and this happens in real life more often than you would think. Marketers are asked to write copy for products or services they dont like or even detest. Politicians are often asked to publicly support policies they private oppose, sometimes vehemently.

Being asked to prepare a defense for a position you normally oppose can stretch not only your abilities, but also your preconceptions. It wouldn't be the first time that someone asked to do this makes such a compelling argument that they end up changing their own position. It is easy to make an argument for what you believe in. Making an argument for what you oppose develops skills and exposes ability and bias. It forces you to not just read the opposing argument, but to understand it.

Now, we have tried before to get something like this started and those with ability to be part of it declined to participate. So let's try again.

The challenge is simple: write a 600-1500 word article on a topic where you support a position you would normally be opposed to. It can be an opinion article or it can be more of a research-type effort. It is all up to you, including the topic. Post it in the General forum and see how it fares.

NOTE: there are no winners and losers. The only way you can lose is to throw a tantrum and claim someone plagiarised or didnt write the article (as Karnal and Aussie did). It is about making effort, not producing War and Peace. Some are far better writers than others, but that's also not the point. It is about the exercise of looking over the ideological fence and spending some time walking (and writing) in their shoes.

This can be fun, challenging and mutually entertaining. The only way it can fail is for people to refuse to participate.

If anyone buys into this, they are an all day sucker ~ unless they are part of the melielongtime forelock tuggers. Both Karnal and I did exactly what he asked which was to produce a piece on a subject we do not personally support. Problem was, melielongtime refused to meet his own terms, threw Teddy and 'he' produced some fantasy based on some fairytale opinions of a make believe Scandinavian Professor!

Contrary to his implied assertion in that propaganda piece, he then proceeded to mark 'his' home work as fantastic and that of mine and Karnal's, a fail.

Nah.

He had his chance, and he well and truly blew it.

The insolence of the orifice!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Karnal

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #8 - Jul 29^th, 2015 at 3:35pm

Unforgiven wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:29pm:

This subject has the appearance of longweekend58 inducing people to become his stooges and develop his arguments for him.

longweekend58 has never backed up his arguments with facts or evidence.

Longweekend has not even provided his own arguments. He’s not intending to now, either.

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Karnal

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #9 - Jul 29^th, 2015 at 3:50pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 12:19pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

It would be fair to say

that most debates on here are rarely anything even close to the meaning of the word. For some, their only mission in life is to oppose what the other party says without any reference to the merits (or otherwise) of the policy. The true challenge is when you are asked to make an argument for a policy you actually oppose and this happens in real life more often than you would think. Marketers are asked to write copy for products or services they dont like or even detest. Politicians are often asked to publicly support policies they private oppose, sometimes vehemently.

Being asked to prepare a defense for a position you normally oppose can stretch not only your abilities, but also your preconceptions. It wouldn't be the first time that someone asked to do this makes such a compelling argument that they end up changing their own position. It is easy to make an argument for what you believe in. Making an argument for what you oppose develops skills and exposes ability and bias. It forces you to not just read the opposing argument, but to understand it.

Now, we have tried before to get something like this started and those with ability to be part of it declined to participate. So let's try again.

The challenge is simple: write a 600-1500 word article on a topic where you support a position you would normally be opposed to. It can be an opinion article or it can be more of a research-type effort. It is all up to you, including the topic. Post it in the General forum and see how it fares.

NOTE: there are no winners and losers. The only way you can lose is to throw a tantrum and claim someone plagiarised or didnt write the article (as Karnal and Aussie did). It is about making effort, not producing War and Peace. Some are far better writers than others, but that's also not the point. It is about the exercise of looking over the ideological fence and spending some time walking (and writing) in their shoes.

This can be fun, challenging and mutually entertaining. The only way it can fail is for people to refuse to participate.

If anyone buys into this, they are an all day sucker ~ unless they are part of the melielongtime forelock tuggers. Both Karnal and I did exactly what he asked which was to produce a piece on a subject we do not personally support. Problem was, melielongtime refused to meet his own terms, threw Teddy and 'he' produced some fantasy based on some fairytale opinions of a make believe Scandinavian Professor!

Contrary to his implied assertion in that propaganda piece, he then proceeded to mark 'his' home work as fantastic and that of mine and Karnal's, a fail.

Nah.

He had his chance, and he well and truly blew it.

you and karnal said mine was plagiarised which is an instant 'fail' for both of you and that is before you wrote your pitiful rubbish.

and like the lying scumbag you are, you said you and karnal were writing your next articles and then they mysteriosuly failed to appear.

fake lawyer.

Your "article" failed because it didn’t make your case. A number of posters pointed this out. I was the only one to charge plagiarism, and you discretely acknowledged this in a number of posts, but most incomprehensively with the words, "reprinted with permission". You and I both know your writing was plagiarised.You can’t back any of it up.

And you’ve been trying to save face ever since - now with a post repeating your challenge; a challenge you know you have no intention of participating in.

I’m currently out of the country, but I will be writing a little article on paedophilia when I can get some time on a computer I’m not doing this to "win", but because I like the task. You’ll see. I’ll post my article in my own time, and you’ll be free to comment.

Stop struggling, Longy. Accept the fact that you blew it, as everybody knows. You can’t "out-manipulate" people with endless challenges and idiot posts - not for long, anyway. It’s clear to all what you’re up to, and it seems terribly sad.

Stop pretending to be a writer. No one believes it anymore, and it now just looks desperate. Keep up the idiot posts and accept what you are: just another mediocre, rusted-on bore.

That’s alright. We’re all bores in our own way - some more than others - and that’s okay.

Accept your limitations. Sure, you’re incapable of writing your own arguments backed up with compelling and persuasive facts. But you’re good at rehashing the shockjocks and News Ltd columnists. Acknowledge this to yourself. Own it. It’s all good. We can’t all be Ernest Hemmingways, and God knows, you’re too old to learn now.

Your posts are almost always porkies. That’s okay - political parties and cashed-up interest groups need spin, and you’re good at repeating it. Keep it up. We can’t all have original and compelling points of view, and we can’t all spend the time to research facts. It’s much quicker to follow the party line and just make stuff up. You know this well. This is what you do. And that’s okay.

Don’t try to change things now, Longy, and don’t be so anxious to prove yourself. We’re all friends here, and we’ll continue to love you just the way you are.

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« Last Edit: Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:38pm by Karnal »

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red baron

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #10 - Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:48pm

Asking writers on this Forum to take part in what a I consider a time wasting and puerile argument, to write up something you are opposed to. Is this Owly's school or University Law exercises?

It is pointless.

To take part in this is not only a waste of time, it is as Truman Capote once said of Harold Robbins' books.

"That's not writing that's typing."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #11 - Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:54pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 12:19pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:39pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1437955386/0#0 date=1437955386]

It would be fair to say

that most debates on here are rarely anything even close to the meaning of the word. For some, their only mission in life is to oppose what the other party says without any reference to the merits (or otherwise) of the policy. The true challenge is when you are asked to make an argument for a policy you actually oppose and this happens in real life more often than you would think. Marketers are asked to write copy for products or services they dont like or even detest. Politicians are often asked to publicly support policies they private oppose, sometimes vehemently.

Being asked to prepare a defense for a position you normally oppose can stretch not only your abilities, but also your preconceptions. It wouldn't be the first time that someone asked to do this makes such a compelling argument that they end up changing their own position. It is easy to make an argument for what you believe in. Making an argument for what you oppose develops skills and exposes ability and bias. It forces you to not just read the opposing argument, but to understand it.

Now, we have tried before to get something like this started and those with ability to be part of it declined to participate. So let's try again.

The challenge is simple: write a 600-1500 word article on a topic where you support a position you would normally be opposed to. It can be an opinion article or it can be more of a research-type effort. It is all up to you, including the topic. Post it in the General forum and see how it fares.

NOTE: there are no winners and losers. The only way you can lose is to throw a tantrum and claim someone plagiarised or didnt write the article (as Karnal and Aussie did). It is about making effort, not producing War and Peace. Some are far better writers than others, but that's also not the point. It is about the exercise of looking over the ideological fence and spending some time walking (and writing) in their shoes.

This can be fun, challenging and mutually entertaining. The only way it can fail is for people to refuse to participate.

If anyone buys into this, they are an all day sucker ~ unless they are part of the melielongtime forelock tuggers. Both Karnal and I did exactly what he asked which was to produce a piece on a subject we do not personally support. Problem was, melielongtime refused to meet his own terms, threw Teddy and 'he' produced some fantasy based on some fairytale opinions of a make believe Scandinavian Professor!

Contrary to his implied assertion in that propaganda piece, he then proceeded to mark 'his' home work as fantastic and that of mine and Karnal's, a fail.

Nah.

He had his chance, and he well and truly blew it.

you and karnal said mine was plagiarised which is an instant 'fail' for both of you and that is before you wrote your pitiful rubbish.

and like the lying scumbag you are, you said you and karnal were writing your next articles and then they mysteriosuly failed to appear.

fake lawyer.

Your "article" failed because it didn’t make your case. A number of posters pointed this out. I was the only one to charge plagiarism, and you discretely acknowledged this in a number of posts, but most incomprehensively with the words, "reprinted with permission". You and I both know your writing was plagiarised.You can’t back any of it up.

And you’ve been trying to save face ever since - now with a post repeating your challenge; a challenge you know you have no intention of participating in.

I’m currently out of the country, but I will be writing a little article on paedophilia when I can get some time on a computer I’m not doing this to "win", but because I like the task. You’ll see. I’ll post my article in my own time, and you’ll be free to comment.

Stod cashed-up interest groups need spin, and you’re good at repeating it. Keep it up. We can’t all have original and compelling points of view, and we can’t all spend the time to research facts. It’s much quicker to follow the party line and just make stuff up. You know this well. This is what you do. And that’s okay.

Don’t try to change things now, Longy, and don’t be so anxious to prove yourself. We’re all friends here, and we’ll continue to love you just the wa

and its those kinds of blatant lies that discredit you even more than the tantrum you threw. I expected more from you and yet you came in lower than all of my expectations.

Just like aussie, I dont expect you to actually write anything serious. I dont think you even know what 'serious' means.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #12 - Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:55pm

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:48pm:

Asking writers on this Forum to take part in what a I consider a time wasting and puerile argument, to write up something you are opposed to. Is this Owly's school or University Law exercises?

It is pointless.

To take part in this is not only a waste of time, it is as Truman Capote once said of Harold Robbins' books.

"That's not writing that's typing."

it separates the ideologues from the thinkers. Anyone can quote or parrot their party's opinions, but to have to support the other side? that takes a bit more and apparently, more than anyone on here is willing to offer. peccahead and bam - two otherwise intelligent and capable posters - have declined.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Secret Wars

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #13 - Jul 29^th, 2015 at 5:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

"That's not writing that's peccahead and bam - two otherwise intelligent and capable posters - have declined.

I am not convinced that anyone whose analysis and evaluation is that one day "History will put Hitler and Abbott side-by-side." can be considered intelligent.

Hysterical and overwrought definately. Cool

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Unforgiven

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Re: The Writing Challenge: Making your argument
Reply #14 - Jul 29^th, 2015 at 5:07pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:48pm:

Asking writers on this Forum to take part in what a I consider a time wasting and puerile argument, to write up something you are opposed to. Is this Owly's school or University Law exercises?

It is pointless.

To take part in this is not only a waste of time, it is as Truman Capote once said of Harold Robbins' books.

"That's not writing that's typing."

it separates the ideologues from the thinkers. Anyone can quote or parrot their party's opinions, but to have to support the other side? that takes a bit more and apparently, more than anyone on here is willing to offer. peccahead and bam - two otherwise intelligent and capable posters - have declined.

longweekend58 created an irrational ploy to get his opponents arguing among themselves while longweekend58 puts his feet up and plagiarizes the best of their creativity.

Everybody saw through longweekend58's ploy and declined to participate.

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“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan

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