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Treatment of our soldiers (Read 3435 times)
Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #30 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:05am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:50am:
Oh i think veterans get very well looked after.
they certainly have gold cards which entitle them to unlimited care from psychiatrists and psychologists.

I am a bit ambivalent about PTSD.

Like whiplash, once you start attaching big compensation to something, the subconscious mind will tend to produce more symptoms. This isnt even been done at a fraudulent level.
If you are aware that night terrors and flashbacks are going to result in a payout, then the human mind can manufacture these.
If you are aware that neck pain will result in a payout, the human mind will make those muscles painful.

i dont think its ever helpful to pay money for a disability, not because i'm not compassionate but because this merely serves to "reward" disability and we need to reward "ability"

What i would introduce is a "no claims bonus".

Any soldier who serves so many days in the frontline and remains mentally strong, recieves so many 1000's , 10's of 1000's or even 100's of 1000's of dollars.

thus we are rewarding bravery and courage and we will get more bravery and courage.

i totally agree these blokes, especially on the front line deserve bigger pay.
a lot of military, however, would face less threat of violence then a suburban policeman.
so we need a way of working out who is in the frontline and who is cooking bacon back in the greenzone and eating baskin and robbins for morning tea.



Money buys mental health now.....ok.
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andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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aquascoot
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #31 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:38am
 
mental health should be about maintaining a good and positive social network.
i would imagine soldiers on the front line have a great bunch of "mates" and a great "esprit-de-corps"
This would be similar to elite footballers.
When this very positive social circle is stripped away , then mental health issues will probably arise .
So many ex soldiers and ex elite footballers etc etc will struggle when they are finished in what is a very intense part of their lives.

Now, does sitting around , talking to psychs all day help this re adjustment.

it would have to be a downer to be in an environment where all you are "soaking up" by osmosis is all this softie softie weak , poor me, poor you  mentality.

These guys were at the peak of mental and phsyical strength.

they need rewards for "being that way"
Why reward weakness.
Why reward "giving up"

Reward them properly for the great physical and mental strength they have shown and keep them on as living legends and "ornaments " to the service.

I am not surprised they have trouble adjusting to mainstream society as mainstream society nowadays does not value any of the things that would be core to army life.

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gizmo_2655
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #32 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:43am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:01am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:48pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:35pm:
I'm frankly astonished that there doesn't seem to be any noise about this - especially from the right.


I am not from the left or right I am centrist.

PTSD is a new age disorder like ADHD.
Back in WW1 none of the returning soldiers had PTSD it hadn't been invented.

Did this guy look like he had PTSD when he returned?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Jacka





Returning WWI and WW2 soldiers beat their wives and kids to a pulp on a regular basis when they came home drunk after washing their war horrors away with a gut full of booze.

Same thing, except now it has a name and it's not just alcohol, it's drugs as well now.


And that, Pansi, is a complete load of horsesh1t....
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aquascoot
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #33 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:59am
 
The problem for returning soldiers is that Pansi and all the luvvies expect the soldiers to give up the very functional manly values of courage and honour and valour and fit into this mish mash of a society the luvvies have created which values....

well i dont know WTF it values.

What i would suggest is that the luvvies shoudl make an attempt to fit into the soldiers world .
Construct a society that honours the rightard manly values of bravery, honour, courage, valour and virtue
instead of a society that seems to value

weakness, victimhood and soft cockery
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #34 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 10:07am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:15am:
i think PTSD probably would be an infectious disease and it is wise for the military to isolate these cases.

as i have said before, you become the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with.

if you put an average soldier in with 5 guys who are falling apart, he will fall apart.
put him in with 5 heroes, he will become heroic.

as i say to crook on a regular basis.

put a 17 yo unemployed lad in a house with 5 guys who are negative, pessimistic, wear pyjamas all day and watch porn and he will catch their disease.

put a 17 yo unemployed lad in a work for the dole program with me and i'll have him associating with hard working, humorous, optomistic, "can-do"  "go-getters"

you absorb the personality of those you associate with by osmosis.
This is why its important young people dont go to rallies with "get-up" or other type infectious people carrying socialist toxins 


Is there a shortage of horse semen harvesters?
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Unforgiven
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #35 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 10:11am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:59am:
The problem for returning soldiers is that Pansi and all the luvvies expect the soldiers to give up the very functional manly values of courage and honour and valour and fit into this mish mash of a society the luvvies have created which values....


They are supposed to stop killing people when they return to Australia.
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Unforgiven
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #36 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 10:16am
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 11:45pm:
Amadd wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 11:35pm:
It must be a terrible thing to return from what most would consider the ultimate sacrifice for your country only to be shunned.
Even more difficult when people back home have differing opinions on our involvement in overseas wars.





PTSD is a normal person's reaction to extremely abnormal events..... I've always held the theory that rejection of the sufferer and inability to fit back in were the main propellants of this disorder into eventual chaos for the individual.

They arrive home in one piece and are relieved that they have done so.... they want a decent life...  then the war starts.......

Do you know a single un-divorced grunt?  I don't....


Perhaps PTSD has its roots in repressed homosexuality?
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #37 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:01pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:43am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:01am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:48pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:35pm:
I'm frankly astonished that there doesn't seem to be any noise about this - especially from the right.


I am not from the left or right I am centrist.

PTSD is a new age disorder like ADHD.
Back in WW1 none of the returning soldiers had PTSD it hadn't been invented.

Did this guy look like he had PTSD when he returned?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Jacka





Returning WWI and WW2 soldiers beat their wives and kids to a pulp on a regular basis when they came home drunk after washing their war horrors away with a gut full of booze.

Same thing, except now it has a name and it's not just alcohol, it's drugs as well now.


And that, Pansi, is a complete load of horsesh1t....




Many of them turned to alcohol, alcohol leads to family violence.....everybody know dat......
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #38 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:06pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:01pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:43am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:01am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:48pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:35pm:
I'm frankly astonished that there doesn't seem to be any noise about this - especially from the right.


I am not from the left or right I am centrist.

PTSD is a new age disorder like ADHD.
Back in WW1 none of the returning soldiers had PTSD it hadn't been invented.

Did this guy look like he had PTSD when he returned?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Jacka





Returning WWI and WW2 soldiers beat their wives and kids to a pulp on a regular basis when they came home drunk after washing their war horrors away with a gut full of booze.

Same thing, except now it has a name and it's not just alcohol, it's drugs as well now.


And that, Pansi, is a complete load of horsesh1t....




Many of them turned to alcohol, alcohol leads to family violence.....everybody know dat......


Not in my experience, they didn't....
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #39 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:29pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:06pm:
Not in my experience, they didn't....



Yep!.....in my experience Second World War, they turned to booze and bashing. Vietnam.....many, many, many had/have mental health issues caused by alcohol and drugs.

Iraq and Afghanistan....same, same, maybe even worse. They come back quite mad.......it's not their fault.

There's enough documentation.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #40 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:33pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:29pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:06pm:
Not in my experience, they didn't....



Yep!.....in my experience Second World War, they turned to booze and bashing. Vietnam.....many, many, many had/have mental health issues caused by alcohol and drugs.

Iraq and Afghanistan....same, same, maybe even worse. They come back quite mad.......it's not their fault.

There's enough documentation.


Well none of the WW2 vets I knew did, and none of their friends knew of anyone who did either.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Unforgiven
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #41 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:02pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:33pm:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:29pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 1:06pm:
Not in my experience, they didn't....



Yep!.....in my experience Second World War, they turned to booze and bashing. Vietnam.....many, many, many had/have mental health issues caused by alcohol and drugs.

Iraq and Afghanistan....same, same, maybe even worse. They come back quite mad.......it's not their fault.

There's enough documentation.


Well none of the WW2 vets I knew did, and none of their friends knew of anyone who did either.


Gizmo is off half-cocked again.

Would they confess to Gizmo? I think not.

What are those numbers Gizmo seeing about 99.9% of WW2 veterans are dead.

Gizmo's research method? Seance?
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« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:09pm by Unforgiven »  

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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #42 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:51pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 8:50am:
Oh i think veterans get very well looked after.
they certainly have gold cards which entitle them to unlimited care from psychiatrists and psychologists.

I am a bit ambivalent about PTSD.

Like whiplash, once you start attaching big compensation to something, the subconscious mind will tend to produce more symptoms. This isnt even been done at a fraudulent level.
If you are aware that night terrors and flashbacks are going to result in a payout, then the human mind can manufacture these.
If you are aware that neck pain will result in a payout, the human mind will make those muscles painful.

i dont think its ever helpful to pay money for a disability, not because i'm not compassionate but because this merely serves to "reward" disability and we need to reward "ability"

What i would introduce is a "no claims bonus".

Any soldier who serves so many days in the frontline and remains mentally strong, recieves so many 1000's , 10's of 1000's or even 100's of 1000's of dollars.
thus we are rewarding bravery and courage and we will get more bravery and courage.

i totally agree these blokes, especially on the front line deserve bigger pay.
a lot of military, however, would face less threat of violence then a suburban policeman.
so we need a way of working out who is in the frontline and who is cooking bacon back in the greenzone and eating baskin and robbins for morning tea.


Not everyone has a gold card - most have white cards for specific conditions.... and getting  a gold card isn't a matter of walking in and asking for it... it takes a lot of effort and hoop jumping.... and I can assure you that when Howard was re-elected in 2000 or so - the move was on to curtail the number of TPI pensions, just to satisfy the number crunchers.  I pointed out to the VVAA that there would be a decline in the number of TPIs granted, since the government had budgeted for only a certain number, and with the advent of PTSD that number was set to soar.

I knew a grunt from 7RAR who was on 150% disability and no TPI..... how do you work that out?

At that time I knew a counsellor who was a Vet, and he tried for it thinking he had all the ropes in hand - and found out it wasn't so easy.

Like rumours of people walking in off the street and getting a DSP - it is just that - rumours.

As for 'big dollars' TPI is about the value of double pension, and is only compensation for damage caused... often enough to allow a Digger to drink himself to death.

No Digger I know from Vietnam has remained married, and it costs a lot of money out of your life to go through that, and at one time it was a matter of the grunts seemed to be living in caravan parks and in garages somewhere....

The rate of suicide is double the ordinary population.
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Unforgiven
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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #43 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 9:55pm
 
Perhaps returning homogenized soldiers need to be heterosexualized before being released into the wilds of civil society.
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« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2015 at 3:02pm by Unforgiven »  

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Re: Treatment of our soldiers
Reply #44 - Jul 31st, 2015 at 3:07pm
 
Sex assault victims in military are mostly men. It's probably that 99% of cases of sexual assault of military males are not reported for fear of humiliation.

PTSD cause?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/20/victims-of-sex-assaults-in-milit...

Quote:
More military men than women are sexually abused in the ranks each year, a Pentagon survey shows, highlighting the underreporting of male-on-male assaults.

When the Defense Department released the results of its anonymous sexual abuse survey this month and concluded that 26,000 service members were victims in fiscal 2012, which ended Sept. 30, an automatic assumption was that most were women. But roughly 14,000 of the victims were male and 12,000 female, according to a scientific survey sample produced by the Pentagon.
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“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan
 
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