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Senseless and totally unwarranted (Read 6932 times)
longweekend58
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #60 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:17pm
 
the problem isnt racial, it is about guns. These things dont happen here because the chance of a motorist carrying a loaded weapon is almost nil.  Im not defending the cops as they need to be better than this, but a lot of the problem is that when everyone carries guns, then every altercation, confrontation... or traffic stop, can be a gun fight. and so people act assuming that and this kind of thing happens.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #61 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:17pm
 
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:02pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:53pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:42pm:
I suggest that you go back and actually read the story.

[i]"A body camera video that Deters played for reporters showed Tensing stopped Dubose for a missing front license plate. Dubose failed to provide a driver's license as Tensing requested then tried to prevent Tensing, who told Dubose to take his seat belt off, from opening the car door.

"The car started slowly rolling forward as Tensing reached in and yelled for him to stop. The officer then pulled his gun and fired once, killing Dubose.



.



That's the evidence.



Indeed.

Video footage of the whole incident, and a dead unarmed body.

How do you think your friend will go in court?



It will depend on the jury, if they are as stupid as you he might get off.



He'll get away with it, if the jury is stupid?

So, you're saying he's guilty.

What was it that someone said, back in post #27 ?

"you have only read the headlines from the media and do not know the full story but have made a judgement based on headlines."




I think he will be found guilty regardless of the evidence, the media have tainted his chances of a fair trial. Look at your reaction to the media coverage, no chance you will now find a jury that can objectively consider the evidence and if they do find in his favour the plebs have only the news story to go on and that will contradict the decision they have already made.



Sounds to me like you're going out of your way to make excuses for him.

Why is that?

Is there something that makes you think that the summary execution was justified?

Herbie thinks the motorist reached the magic number of 5 offences, and that's why his murder is justifiable.

Mind you, the colour of his skin would probably drop Herbie's magic number down to 2.

What makes you think this motorist deserved to be summarily executed?

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Lord Herbert
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #62 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:20pm
 
red baron wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:55pm:
If someone threatened me with a knife and I had reasonable cause to believe that that person was capable of using it on me and was  close enough to do it and in fact was likely to carry out that act; nut job or no nut job I would use my gun on that offender without hesitation.


That's not a problem with me.

If they're on 'ice' or some other Substance Abuse 'trip' I couldn't give a rat's arse. Same if they're a schizophrenic or any other kind of nutter.

The police rushed in and shot Man Haron Monis in that cafe in Sydney - despite him not having shot anyone beforehand. That was a case of summary justice 'on-the-run'. No one was charged. He held people hostage and made threats, but in law that doesn't attract the death penalty - but in they went and shot him dead.

Interestingly, the magistrates in Britain don't think someone running at the police with a sharp knife is a serious crime - let alone deserving of being shot by a police officer who is defending himself.

link
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #63 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:26pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:20pm:
red baron wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:55pm:
If someone threatened me with a knife and I had reasonable cause to believe that that person was capable of using it on me and was  close enough to do it and in fact was likely to carry out that act; nut job or no nut job I would use my gun on that offender without hesitation.


That's not a problem with me.

If they're on 'ice' or some other Substance Abuse 'trip' I couldn't give a rat's arse. Same if they're a schizophrenic or any other kind of nutter.

The police rushed in and shot Man Haron Monis in that cafe in Sydney - despite him not having shot anyone beforehand. That was a case of summary justice 'on-the-run'. No one was charged. He held people hostage and made threats, but in law that doesn't attract the death penalty - but they went and shot him dead.

Interestingly, the magistrates in Britain don't think someone running at the police with a sharp knife is a serious crime - let alone deserving of being shot by a police officer who is defending himself.

link



See what I told you, red?

Back in post #58  http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1438217321/58#58





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|dev|null
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #64 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:36pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:20pm:
The police rushed in and shot Man Haron Monis in that cafe in Sydney - despite him not having shot anyone beforehand.


Monis killed Tori Johnson Sensei.  Your bait is old and lifeless as a consequence.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:57pm by |dev|null »  

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Steampipe
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #65 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:17pm:
Sounds to me like you're going out of your way to make excuses for him.

Why is that?

Is there something that makes you think that the summary execution was justified?

Herbie thinks the motorist reached the magic number of 5 offences, and that's why his murder is justifiable.

Mind you, the colour of his skin would probably drop Herbie's magic number down to 2.

What makes you think this motorist deserved to be summarily executed?



What on earth has you thinking I thought this motorist deserved to be summarily executed.

Have you made this up so you can claim the high ground on this issue, should I read the headlines and regard that as concrete evidence that this was a summarily execution.

Why are you claiming that no other evidence needs to be presented and the word of the prosecutor is enough to convict a person of a most serious crime.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #66 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:42pm
 
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
Why are you claiming that no other evidence needs to be presented and the word of the prosecutor is enough to convict a person of a most serious crime.



I'm not.

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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #67 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:43pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:36pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:20pm:
The police rushed in and shot Man Haron Monis in that cafe in Sydney - despite him not having shot anyone beforehand.


Monis killed Tori Johnson Sensei.  You bait is old and lifeless as a consequence.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin



The Troll King has been off his game for the last couple of days.

I wonder if Windows 10 has anything to do with it.


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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #68 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:54pm
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #69 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:07pm
 
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
Why are you claiming that no other evidence needs to be presented and the word of the prosecutor is enough to convict a person of a most serious crime.



I'm not.

However, this evidence won't do the cop any favours:





Notice how the driver is unarmed, and moving away from the police officer.

"Stop"  Bang!

Not looking good for this guy.

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Steampipe
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #70 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:12pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
Why are you claiming that no other evidence needs to be presented and the word of the prosecutor is enough to convict a person of a most serious crime.



I'm not.

However, this evidence won't do the cop any favours:






I bet the cops play on what he was doing with his other hand whilst holding the door closed with the other, could he have been reaching for a gun, the cop yells out something along the lines of watch out when the guy reaches towards the underside of the dash.


watching it again he seems to be saying duck duck!!.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #71 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:18pm
 
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
Why are you claiming that no other evidence needs to be presented and the word of the prosecutor is enough to convict a person of a most serious crime.



I'm not.

However, this evidence won't do the cop any favours:






I bet the cops play on what he was doing with his other hand whilst holding the door closed with the other, could he have been reaching for a gun, the cop yells out something along the lines of watch out when the guy reaches towards the underside of the dash.


watching it again he seems to be saying duck duck!!.



Well, once Herbie watches the video he'll be convinced that the killing was justified.

I mean, come on: being black and wearing a silly hat in a built up area.  Case closed - give the cop a medal.



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longweekend58
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #72 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:27pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:17pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:02pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:53pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:42pm:
I suggest that you go back and actually read the story.

[i]"A body camera video that Deters played for reporters showed Tensing stopped Dubose for a missing front license plate. Dubose failed to provide a driver's license as Tensing requested then tried to prevent Tensing, who told Dubose to take his seat belt off, from opening the car door.

"The car started slowly rolling forward as Tensing reached in and yelled for him to stop. The officer then pulled his gun and fired once, killing Dubose.



.



That's the evidence.



Indeed.

Video footage of the whole incident, and a dead unarmed body.

How do you think your friend will go in court?



It will depend on the jury, if they are as stupid as you he might get off.



He'll get away with it, if the jury is stupid?

So, you're saying he's guilty.

What was it that someone said, back in post #27 ?

"you have only read the headlines from the media and do not know the full story but have made a judgement based on headlines."




I think he will be found guilty regardless of the evidence, the media have tainted his chances of a fair trial. Look at your reaction to the media coverage, no chance you will now find a jury that can objectively consider the evidence and if they do find in his favour the plebs have only the news story to go on and that will contradict the decision they have already made.



Sounds to me like you're going out of your way to make excuses for him.

Why is that?

Is there something that makes you think that the summary execution was justified?

Herbie thinks the motorist reached the magic number of 5 offences, and that's why his murder is justifiable.

Mind you, the colour of his skin would probably drop Herbie's magic number down to 2.

What makes you think this motorist deserved to be summarily executed?




but of course... the important thing is to remain totally fixated on the symptoms and ignore the root causes.  Thats important to you , isnt it? shadow over substance?

the problem is that people are bad.  and when they BOTH have guns, it turns into a bloodbath.

Im not defending him nor ever have. I am saying that you put a mixture of a dumb cop in an environment where everyone has guns and you have a guaranteed disaster.  That would be why every other week is a school shooting or a cinema shooting and it doesnt happen in countries without massive gun ownership.

stick to just symptoms and the disease will never be cured.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #73 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 6:12pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:27pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:17pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:02pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:53pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:42pm:
I suggest that you go back and actually read the story.

[i]"A body camera video that Deters played for reporters showed Tensing stopped Dubose for a missing front license plate. Dubose failed to provide a driver's license as Tensing requested then tried to prevent Tensing, who told Dubose to take his seat belt off, from opening the car door.

"The car started slowly rolling forward as Tensing reached in and yelled for him to stop. The officer then pulled his gun and fired once, killing Dubose.



.



That's the evidence.



Indeed.

Video footage of the whole incident, and a dead unarmed body.

How do you think your friend will go in court?



It will depend on the jury, if they are as stupid as you he might get off.



He'll get away with it, if the jury is stupid?

So, you're saying he's guilty.

What was it that someone said, back in post #27 ?

"you have only read the headlines from the media and do not know the full story but have made a judgement based on headlines."




I think he will be found guilty regardless of the evidence, the media have tainted his chances of a fair trial. Look at your reaction to the media coverage, no chance you will now find a jury that can objectively consider the evidence and if they do find in his favour the plebs have only the news story to go on and that will contradict the decision they have already made.



Sounds to me like you're going out of your way to make excuses for him.

Why is that?

Is there something that makes you think that the summary execution was justified?

Herbie thinks the motorist reached the magic number of 5 offences, and that's why his murder is justifiable.

Mind you, the colour of his skin would probably drop Herbie's magic number down to 2.

What makes you think this motorist deserved to be summarily executed?




but of course... the important thing is to remain totally fixated on the symptoms and ignore the root causes.  Thats important to you , isnt it? shadow over substance?

the problem is that people are bad.  and when they BOTH have guns, it turns into a bloodbath.

Im not defending him nor ever have. I am saying that you put a mixture of a dumb cop in an environment where everyone has guns and you have a guaranteed disaster.  That would be why every other week is a school shooting or a cinema shooting and it doesnt happen in countries without massive gun ownership.

stick to just symptoms and the disease will never be cured.



The dead dude was unarmed.

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longweekend58
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Re: Senseless and totally unwarranted
Reply #74 - Jul 30th, 2015 at 6:18pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 6:12pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 5:27pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:17pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 3:02pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:53pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:50pm:
Steampipe wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2015 at 2:42pm:
I suggest that you go back and actually read the story.

[i]"A body camera video that Deters played for reporters showed Tensing stopped Dubose for a missing front license plate. Dubose failed to provide a driver's license as Tensing requested then tried to prevent Tensing, who told Dubose to take his seat belt off, from opening the car door.

"The car started slowly rolling forward as Tensing reached in and yelled for him to stop. The officer then pulled his gun and fired once, killing Dubose.



.



That's the evidence.



Indeed.

Video footage of the whole incident, and a dead unarmed body.

How do you think your friend will go in court?



It will depend on the jury, if they are as stupid as you he might get off.



He'll get away with it, if the jury is stupid?

So, you're saying he's guilty.

What was it that someone said, back in post #27 ?

"you have only read the headlines from the media and do not know the full story but have made a judgement based on headlines."




I think he will be found guilty regardless of the evidence, the media have tainted his chances of a fair trial. Look at your reaction to the media coverage, no chance you will now find a jury that can objectively consider the evidence and if they do find in his favour the plebs have only the news story to go on and that will contradict the decision they have already made.



Sounds to me like you're going out of your way to make excuses for him.

Why is that?

Is there something that makes you think that the summary execution was justified?

Herbie thinks the motorist reached the magic number of 5 offences, and that's why his murder is justifiable.

Mind you, the colour of his skin would probably drop Herbie's magic number down to 2.

What makes you think this motorist deserved to be summarily executed?




but of course... the important thing is to remain totally fixated on the symptoms and ignore the root causes.  Thats important to you , isnt it? shadow over substance?

the problem is that people are bad.  and when they BOTH have guns, it turns into a bloodbath.

Im not defending him nor ever have. I am saying that you put a mixture of a dumb cop in an environment where everyone has guns and you have a guaranteed disaster.  That would be why every other week is a school shooting or a cinema shooting and it doesnt happen in countries without massive gun ownership.

stick to just symptoms and the disease will never be cured.



The dead dude was unarmed.



a fact that came out AFTERWARDS. try listening. IN the USA, people (and police) would assume that ANYONE could potentially be armed and that is not unreasonable. It is not just the actual existence of guns that is the problem but the POTENTIAL AND PROBABLE existence of them that colours every encounter. Here in australia, the likelihood of anyone owning a gun is low enough but carrying on in public is nearly unheard of.  POlice and others do not presume the existence of a gun and therefore act much less suspiciously.

I am not supporting the boofhead cop. I am making the argument that the mere existence of all these guns makes incidents like this inevitable, just like all the school and cinema shootings are inevitable... and repeated.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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