Australian Politics Forum - The most retarded circular argument

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 138855
Gender: male

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #15 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:01pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm:

You have no credibility, as a self confessed moslem.

My argument uses common sense and has nothing to do with being a muslim

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm:

every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac

I find this offensive.

I find Yadda offensive.

Highly offensive.

Yadda's "argument":

- all Muslims are Muslims
- all Muslims are terrorists
- all terrorists are Muslims
- all other views are invalid

His shtick is getting old.

Back to top

IP Logged

LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #16 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:48pm I post pro islam in every thread but I am not a muslim I am just passing time. Well how cool is that. Well done. The diversity here is very encouraging I must say.
Back to top	There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time. IP Logged

LifeOrDeath

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1548

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #17 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:50pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:01pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm:

You have no credibility, as a self confessed moslem.

My argument uses common sense and has nothing to do with being a muslim

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm:

every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac

I find this offensive.

I find Yadda offensive.

Highly offensive.

Yadda's "argument":

- all Muslims are Muslims
- all Muslims are terrorists
- all terrorists are Muslims
- all other views are invalid

His shtick is getting old.

Don't forget

- the quran instructs terrorism
- all REAL muslims believe the quran as stated by the quran

Why would a muslim get offended by their holy book ?

Back to top

There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96333

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #18 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:01pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm:

You have no credibility, as a self confessed moslem.

My argument uses common sense and has nothing to do with being a muslim

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm:

every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac

I find this offensive.

Yes, G, but Y's just saying. Maybe you're a hommersexual maniac and don't know it yet.

It is possible, you know. Y wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.

Google: taqiyya.

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #19 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:52pm why, can you understand why some might find the statement that every single muslim is a wannabe homocidal maniac offensive?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

LifeOrDeath

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1548

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #20 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:52pm:

why, can you understand why some might find the statement that every single muslim is a wannabe homocidal maniac offensive?

Does the quran instruct them to be homicidal maniacs ?

Homicide is the act of a human being causing the death of another human being. There are both unintentional and intentional homicides, and many different types of homicides are generally treated very differently in human societies; such classes of homicide can include murder, manslaughter, euthanasia, and execution.

Maniac (from Greek μανιακός, maniakos) is a pejorative for an individual who experiences the mood known as mania. Also in common usage it is an insult for someone involved in reckless behavior.

Back to top

There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #21 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:00pm LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:57pm: FACT: Not one so called mythical moderate muslim to date has EVER refuted the scriptures used by muslim terrorists. Lets see what Google tells us about your statement, shall we? Oops!
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #22 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:05pm LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:56pm: Does the quran instruct them to be homicidal maniacs ? No. I don't expect you to believe this, but given that there are a substantial number of muslims that do, do you understand how such a muslim could take offense at being called a wannabe homocidal maniac?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

double plus good

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5693
Gender: male

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #23 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:11pm

Koran-The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".

Another hate book. Walk away from organised religion.

Back to top

IP Logged

LifeOrDeath

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1548

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #24 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:05pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:56pm:

Does the quran instruct them to be homicidal maniacs ?

No.

I don't expect you to believe this, but given that there are a substantial number of muslims that do, do you understand how such a muslim could take offense at being called a wannabe homocidal maniac?

I don't have to believe you you are not an authority on most muslims. I only deal in facts that don't require belief.

If the quran teaches the following definitions of homicide and maniac below, and one calls themselves a muslim and they take offense to the quran as you portray would they actually just be people calling themselves muslims and NOT real ones according to the quran ?

Does the quran instruct them to be homicidal maniacs ?
If so and they believe in islam why would they be offended ?

Definitions : -
Homicide is the act of a human being causing the death of
another human being. There are both unintentional and intentional homicides, and many different types of homicides are generally treated very differently in human societies; such classes of homicide can include murder, manslaughter, euthanasia, and execution.

Maniac (from Greek μανιακός, maniakos) is a pejorative for an individual who experiences the mood known as mania. Also in common usage it is an insult for someone involved in reckless behavior.

Back to top

There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

IP Logged

LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #25 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:33pm You said the quran doesn't teach that. how do explain away all the scriptures then ?
Back to top	There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #26 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:46pm LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:33pm: You said the quran doesn't teach that. how do explain away all the scriptures then ? I believe thats your job.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96333	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #27 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 5:07pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:52pm: why, can you understand why some might find the statement that every single muslim is a wannabe homocidal maniac offensive? No one has the right to not be offended, G. Y's allowed to criticize Moslems. He's just doing his job.
Back to top	IP Logged

LifeOrDeath

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1548

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #28 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 5:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:46pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 4:33pm:

You said the quran doesn't teach that. how do explain away all the scriptures then ?

I believe thats your job.

I believe thats your job you have seen them all posted here umpteen times. I'll humor you with a few.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Back to top

There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

IP Logged

LifeOrDeath

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1548

Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #29 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 5:13pm

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle). According to the verse, Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill others in his cause.

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Back to top

There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

IP Logged