Australian Politics Forum - The most retarded circular argument

Yadda

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #75 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 11:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 6:42pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 6:33pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:

Dictionary;
credible = = able to be believed; convincing.

Or in other words:

credible = = the claim that a religion is best represented by the actions and convictions of the few, and not the actions and convictions of the majority.

Should Islam be represented by

the actions of the few, the many, or the one Gandalf?

The many (majority).

gandalf,

I would have suggested that your reply should have suggested, that ISLAM [i.e. Allah's perfect religion] should be 'represented' [e.g. 'explained'], by the wishes of the entity that you know as, Allah.

Not so ?

gandalf,

And what is Allah's word, regarding the enmity and hostility, to be shown towards those who do not worship Allah alone ???

a few examples of Allah's direct and actual words ------ >

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

gandalf,

QUESTION;
If moslems fight against infidels,

because moslems are being moslems

, and because the infidels refuse to worship Allah, aren't moslems likely to kill those infidels [in the act of fighting against them] ?

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

You are fighting the good fight, aren't you gandalf ? Wink

But your 'fight' is non-lethal for infidels, at this stage of your Jihad.

That is correct, isn't it gandalf ?

.

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #76 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 12:18am You would think he would at least wash his forehead wouldn't you. What a grub.
Back to top	There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time. IP Logged

polite_gandalf

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #77 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 7:37am

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 8:06pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 7:59pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 7:49pm:

Nothing was cherry picked

Right, just so we're clear here: quoting one verse telling muslims to instill fear in the ranks of their enemy - without mentioning the verse preceding it saying it only applies to enemies who repeatedly break treaties, and without mentioning the verse after ordering muslims to accept any overtures of peace by that enemy - isn't cherry picking?

Please confirm this is the case matty, before we go any further.

Write those ones off as cherry picking, I couldn't care less.

- I guess thats as close to an admission of defeat as we'll get.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #78 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 8:13am

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 8:28pm:

Why should Islam not be represented by the words and deeds of Muhammed?

And here we have FD diving head first into his favourite version of the circular argument:

FD: Why should Islam not be represented by the words and deeds of Muhammed?

response: It should - most muslims believe Muhammad represented peace and goodwill

FD: Is that why all those muslims are in Syria on a Muhammad-inspired rape and pillage carnival?

response: most muslims reject those actions and reject the idea that they represent the actions of The Prophet

FD: yeah but they are deluded, lying or stupid - only the rapists are following Muhammad true example

response: why should that minority be seen to represent the true example of Muhammad - when the majority rejects
that representation?

FD: because they are following the real example of Muhammad...

....and on and on

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Inyss Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 56 Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #79 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 8:28am Of course there is always a poo joke. The joke being - If you don't want to eat Halal certified food, eat poo. lol I do most of my food shopping at markets and via the farm gate now.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #80 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 9:11am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:

Dictionary;
credible = = able to be believed; convincing.

Or in other words:

credible = = the claim that a religion is best represented by the actions and convictions of the few, and not the actions and convictions of the majority.

Good point for discussion.

Who are the most faithful to the letter of their religion - the priests and nuns or the laity?

Who are the teachers/preachers and who are the listeners/congregation - the ordained or the laity?

Which are in the minority - the True Believers or the Sunday morning Christians?

The answer is obvious.

Political Islam is driven by the few.

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« Last Edit: Aug 5^th, 2015 at 9:53am by Lord Herbert »

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Yadda

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #81 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 9:50am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 8:13am:

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 8:28pm:

Why should Islam not be represented by the words and deeds of Muhammed?

And here we have FD diving head first into his favourite version of the circular argument:

FD: Why should Islam not be represented by the words and deeds of Muhammed?

response: It should - most muslims believe Muhammad represented peace and goodwill

FD: Is that why all those muslims are in Syria on a Muhammad-inspired rape and pillage carnival?

response: most muslims reject those actions and reject the idea that they represent the actions of The Prophet

FD: yeah but they are deluded, lying or stupid - only the rapists are following Muhammad true example

response: why should that minority be seen to represent the true example of Muhammad - when the majority rejects
that representation?

FD: because they are following the real example of Muhammad...

....and on and on

gandalf,

Yes!

According to the moslem [you know! the follower of ISLAM], ISLAM is the lily white and virtuous faith.

It is the actual perfect religion, given to man, by Allah.

And according to the moslem [and Allah], Mohammed [the messenger of Allah] is an example of virtuous conduct for every moslem man.

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah [i.e. Mohammed] a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."
Koran 33.021

And now please remember, that the Koran, is regarded by every moslem, as inerrant.

But, the problem for those who present ISLAM as a virtuous faith, which is justice based, peaceful and tolerant, is that the content of ISLAM's own foundation texts [the Koran, regarded by every moslem as inerrant, and the sunnah of Mohammed] present a shocking expose' of what ISLAM really is!

And, ISLAM's foundation texts [the Koran and the Hadith] are considered as authentic ISLAMIC texts and as relevant ISLAMIC texts.

If that is not the case, then do please explain to us, why are the Koran and the Hadith, still accounted by ISLAMIC scholars as being authentic ISLAMIC texts, which may be readily quoted, to support doctrine and the actions of moslems ?

.

ISLAM INSTRUCTS THE MOSLEM, THAT MURDERING FOR HIS 'RELIGION' IS HALAL....

"Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #005.059.369

And this....

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

ISLAM INSTRUCTS THE MOSLEM, THAT MURDERING FOR HIS 'RELIGION' IS HALAL....

THE HADITH....

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Everywhere, there is the shocking account [within ISLAM's own foundation texts] of ISLAM's intolerance and religious bigotry and the promotion of religious violence towards those who reject ISLAM.

And this encouragement, to religious bigotry, and to religious violence, is 'sponsored' even by Allah himself....

WITHIN ALLAH'S INERRANT KORAN.....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #82 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 9:55am

Yadda wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 9:50am:

Everywhere, there is the shocking account [within ISLAM's own foundation texts] of ISLAM's intolerance and religious bigotry and the promotion of religious violence towards those who reject ISLAM.

And this encouragement, to religious bigotry, and to religious violence, is 'sponsored' even by Allah himself....

WITHIN ALLAH'S INERRANT KORAN.....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

I will just 'get in', and present this information [BELOW], before some wit presents a post which tells me that the OT encouraged violence against gentiles, because they were gentiles.

IT DOES NOT!

.

Spreading ISLAM, by violence and the sword, is the sole 'preview' of ISLAM - and was not sanctioned in the religion of ancient Israel, or of Christians !!!

As the bible itself testifies.....
The ancient Hebrews HAD NO SANCTION FROM THEIR GOD TO MURDER OR TO HARM, THOSE WHO WERE NOT HEBREWS. [because they were gentiles]

+++

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger:
for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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|dev|null

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #83 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 11:09am

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:42pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:42pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:13pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

I see you've attracted two of the circular arguers G.

dev,

Like many moslems, you have no credibility.

Except Y., I am NOT a Muslim! Which rather sinks your whole argument, now doesn't it? Grin

dev,

I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but;

You have NOT achieved 'suspension of disbelief'.

Y. I don't care what you believe.

dev,

If you didn't, you wouldn't respond to the opinions i express in my posts.

Y. I don't care what you believe. Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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freediver

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #84 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 5:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 8:13am:

freediver wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 8:28pm:

Why should Islam not be represented by the words and deeds of Muhammed?

And here we have FD diving head first into his favourite version of the circular argument:

FD: Why should Islam not be represented by the words and deeds of Muhammed?

response: It should - most muslims believe Muhammad represented peace and goodwill

FD: Is that why all those muslims are in Syria on a Muhammad-inspired rape and pillage carnival?

response: most muslims reject those actions and reject the idea that they represent the actions of The Prophet

FD: yeah but they are deluded, lying or stupid - only the rapists are following Muhammad true example

response: why should that minority be seen to represent the true example of Muhammad - when the majority rejects
that representation?

FD: because they are following the real example of Muhammad...

....and on and on

So what does represent Islam? Muslims driving cars? Eating cornflakes for breakfast? It sounds to me like you are trying on Brian's trick of making Islam an unfathomable mystery that disappears every time you look at it.

Believing that Muhammed "represents peace and goodwill" while also trotting out your excuses for genocide and slavery is nothing more than self deception. It is no different to a Nazi believing that Hitler represents peace and goodwill. Muhammed's actions speak for themselves. When even self-appointed reformists like yourself trip and stumble over when it is appropriate to kill gays, you know there is a problem.

All those Muslims traveling to the middle east to participate in the latest rape and pillage festival are inspired by Islam to do so.

Just because a Muslim rejects the latest incarnation of Islamic utopia does not mean their views are compatible with the civilised world. A slightly less barbaric version - for example where they use women and children as sex slaves rather than slaughtering some of them, would appeal to a broader Muslim audience. There is a whole spectrum of objectionable views held by Muslims that lie to the left of ISIS.

Feel free to point out the circularity in what I am actually saying Gandalf.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #85 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 6:10pm

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 5:15pm:

Feel free to point out the circularity in what I am actually saying Gandalf.

Here FD demonstrates how those who suffer from this debilitating condition known as Retarded Circular Argument Syndrome (RCAS) have lost the ability to comprehend the most basic logic, in addition to possessing an irresistible urge to respond to things they so obviously haven't been able to comprehend - combined with a near super-human level of stamina to labor the same inane, illogical points for months on end.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #86 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 7:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

claim: Islam is innately violent - and I have the actions of muslims to prove it

response: the majority of muslims are not violent

claim: they don't count - its the minority who are carrying out Allah's violent commands

resposne: how can you claim them to be representing "true" Islam if they are in the minority?

claim: because they are carrying out Allah's violent commands.

and round and round we go...

Lemme try.

Islam - Submission - is based on supposed revelations demanding violence to achieve the goal = Submission.

Most of those who have already Submitted are not naturally inclined to perpetrate violence, even to further the aims of the religion they have submitted to. They are duly called cowards and backsliders by the ones who are hot to obey the letter of the revelation. (this shows just how utterly unnatural and un-godly the revelation really is - it takes fanatics to accept it wholly. But that may well be another thread).

Having submitted, they will not be inclined to contradict those who ARE inclined to perpetrate violence, as their revelations demand.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #87 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 7:05pm Ah yes - the good old 'the peaceful majority just aren't devout enough'. An essential component of RCAS
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Soren

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #88 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 7:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

Ah yes - the good old 'the peaceful majority just aren't devout enough'.

An essential component of RCAS

No - the 'peaceful majority' (which might not be a majority by a wide margin) - simply do not follow the letter of the revelation. It is inhuman. Most people, Muslim or otherwise, aren't.

The letter of the revelation is very, very clear. The history of Islam is also very, very clear.

The 'tiny' minority would not be rampaging in the name of Allah if they had no textual back up from... er... Allah and his 'Messenger'.

Who do you believe?

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freediver

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #89 - Aug 5^th, 2015 at 7:37pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 6:10pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2015 at 5:15pm:

Feel free to point out the circularity in what I am actually saying Gandalf.

Here FD demonstrates how those who suffer from this debilitating condition known as Retarded Circular Argument Syndrome (RCAS) have lost the ability to comprehend the most basic logic, in addition to possessing an irresistible urge to respond to things they so obviously haven't been able to comprehend - combined with a near super-human level of stamina to labor the same inane, illogical points for months on end.

That's odd. You were more than happy to critique my argument before I told you what it was. I guess it is easier for you when I am saying things without actually saying them.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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