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The most retarded circular argument (Read 10100 times)

polite_gandalf

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The most retarded circular argument
Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm

claim: Islam is innately violent - and I have the actions of muslims to prove it

response: the majority of muslims are not violent

claim: they don't count - its the minority who are carrying out Allah's violent commands

resposne: how can you claim them to be representing "true" Islam if they are in the minority?

claim: because they are carrying out Allah's violent commands.

and round and round we go...

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49308 At my desk.	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #1 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:48pm You forgot the poo joke Gandalf. There is always a poo joke. Otherwise how do you know who won?
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Yadda

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #2 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 1:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

gandalf,

Yes, ISLAM is innately violent.

Moslems simply pretend that ISLAM is not violent, ....as a stratagem [i.e. deceit], of their warfare.

gandalf,

The 'failure' of [many] moslems living in nations like Australia, to show open animosity and even violence towards their non-moslem 'friends', does not prove that ISLAM is a benign philosophy.

gandalf,

Logically, the 'failure' [i.e. the unwillingness!] of moslems to reveal their true nature while living in nations like Australia has everything to do with the impotence of moslems living in nations like Australia [i.e. the fear of those moslems, that they will be called to account by secular law and law courts, within nations like Australia].

.

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance."

as per......

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...

.

FD said it well enough,

when speaking to the reason for the apparent 'timidity' of many moslems....

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1391854581/281#281
Quote:

You are mistaking impotence for benign intent. The Muslims are in no hurry to correct you.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1368872008/51#51
Quote:

Chimp you are confusing impotence with benevolence. Abu was fond of this trick. Correlation does not equal causation.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344119653/61#61
Quote:

They want to impose it on everyone. They just recognise their own impotence. Even Abu is telling you this spot. You should learn to tell the difference. Imagine a Nazi telling you he is not capable of slaughtering Jews because Australian law stops him - would you turn around and tell everyone he does not want to slaughter Jews? For someone who claims to oppose this BS you are incredibly blind to it.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344119653/78#78
Quote:

How can you tell the difference? Even when Abu says he believes in the death penalty for apostasy and destroying freedom and democracy yuou refuse to believe it. All he has to do is point out his impotence to achieve his goals and you take this to mean they are not his goals. I have never seen anyone so easy to fool.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1339842765/287#287
Quote:

Do you believe that Abu wants Islamic law for Australia? Can you point to anywhere that he has actually said he does not want it, rather than where he has merely refused to give a straight answer? Can you tell the difference between Abu acknowledging his own impotence to achieve what he wants and not wanting it? Can you explain why he would answer by talking about his inability to achieve Islamic law in Australia if it was not what he wanted?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344204563/155#155
Quote:

Not really. I am just trying to get you to acknowledge the reality. I have not been quoting the Koran at Abu as you claim and telling him what he believes. I have been asking him. As far as I can tell it still has not sunk in with you that Abu opposes freedom and democracy and wants the death penalty for all sorts of thought crimes. I can provide links and quotes on any that you are interested in. It will help you to face reality, one little step at a time. You can move past your little delusion that impotence is the same thing as benign intent.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344204563/168#168
Quote:

Are you honestly incapable of telling the difference between impotence and benign intent? Why is it good enough to for you to openly lie about what Abu wants by pretending it is the same as what he can achieve?

All of these "ISLAM is a peaceful faith."
crowd, are as thick as two short planks.

Either that, or this crowd are really moslems, here on OzPol, who are masquerading as non-moslems.

I would say the latter.

" The Prophet said, "War is deceit." "

hadith/bukhari/ #004.052.269

Moslems lying to, and deceiving 'disbelievers', is still recognised as an aspect of Jihad [religious fighting against 'disbelievers'].

Isn't that correct, gandalf! Wink

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #3 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 1:43pm I see you've attracted two of the circular arguers G.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96330	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #4 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:00pm You forgot the pickled stool, G: always absolutely never ever. We don't call them retarded anymore. We call them people with early-onset dementia. This is a disability - it's no one's fault. The retarded, you see, have the right to not be offended. Delish.
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Yadda

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #5 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

I see you've attracted two of the circular arguers G.

dev,

Like many moslems, you have no credibility.

Your arguments are founded in falsehood.

Your denials are empty and uncreditable/unverifiable.

Dictionary;
credible = = able to be believed; convincing.

Moslems are persons who choose to follow a philosophy, ISLAM, which encourages hostility and/or deceit towards non-moslems, .....the former in places where moslems are politically strong, and the latter in places where moslems are politically weak.

Living within nations like Australia [where moslems have little 'practical' means] the moslem community preaches a relationship of veiled hostility towards the non-moslem jurisdiction.

.

KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE IS WRONG!!!!! AND IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW. ASK ANY MOSLEM..

The example of an 'Aussie' moslem community leader,

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric
January 18, 2007
SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.
Firebrand Sheik Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool [Australia], delivered the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series being sold in Australia and overseas.
.........Sheik Feiz says in the video.
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
An Australian citizen born in Sydney who has spent the past year living in Lebanon, Sheik Feiz was exposed this week in a British documentary Undercover Mosque.
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).

"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

......Sheik Feiz - who just two weeks ago said he felt like an "alien" in his own country - leads about 4000 followers through his Global Islamic Youth Centre in Sydney's southwest.
He also accused Australian authorities of being over-zealous in their approach to clerics like him.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

.

Spokesmen for ISLAM will tell anyone who will listen;

THAT IT IS WRONG, AND THAT IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW, TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Please watch this YT...
A UK moslem community leader, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

Quote:

KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE

"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."

"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

.

KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE IS WRONG!!!!! AND IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW. ASK ANY MOSLEM..

The example of a moslem community leader,

, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

FIRST speaking publicly [to an 'infidel' audience] ------- >

Quote:

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians.

BUT, NOW LISTEN TO THE EXACT SAME MOSLEM - SPEAKING [PRIVATELY] TO A GROUP OF MOSLEMS ------- >

Quote:

Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that

he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent:

Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

"Ye

[moslems]

are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #6 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:13pm Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm: \|dev\|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 1:43pm: I see you've attracted two of the circular arguers G. dev, Like many moslems, you have no credibility. Except Y., I am NOT a Muslim! Which rather sinks your whole argument, now doesn't it?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #7 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:29pm Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm: Dictionary; credible = = able to be believed; convincing. Or in other words: credible = = the claim that a religion is best represented by the actions and convictions of the few, and not the actions and convictions of the majority.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #8 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:42pm

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:13pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

I see you've attracted two of the circular arguers G.

dev,

Like many moslems, you have no credibility.

Except Y., I am NOT a Muslim! Which rather sinks your whole argument, now doesn't it? Grin

dev,

I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but;

You have NOT achieved 'suspension of disbelief'.

.

Quote:

Taqiyya

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google

Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Making the claim;

"But i'm not a moslem!"

is like when i say;

"ISLAM is not a peaceful and tolerant faith."

But i am able to provide evidence to back up my stated opinion.

Can you ?

e.g.
Why would anyone believe, that ISLAM is NOT murderous death cult ???

THE INERRANT KORAN.....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #9 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:

Dictionary;
credible = = able to be believed; convincing.

Or in other words:

credible = = the claim that a religion is best represented by the actions and convictions of the few, and not the actions and convictions of the majority.

gandalf,

The argument which i have with you, is not about a claim which is impossible to prove [i.e. the argument about what are, the 'convictions' of the majority of moslems].

The argument is about

what ISLAM is

.

The argument is about

what ISLAM is

.

The argument is about

what ISLAM is

.

gandalf, is the moslem who claims to be a follower of ISLAM,

.......but, not a follower of ISLAM!!

.

gandalf,

You have no credibility, as a self confessed moslem.

----------- >

Yadda said....
Quote:

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Google;
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

"There is no god except for Allah alone; and Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah."

Today, many moslems - living in Australia - are insisting that we, Australians, must be forced to believe the incredible;

"I'm a moslem, and i worship Allah, and i revere Mohammed his messenger.

And i know that Allah calls for the enslavement and/or murder of all non-moslems - THROUGH JIHAD [religious fighting, when moslems have that 'opportunity'].

But i don't follow that part of my faith.

HONEST!"

Dictionary;
incredible = =
1 impossible to believe.
2 difficult to believe; extraordinary.

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1
Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"

- Yadda

QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?

QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'], ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?

.

THE INERRANT KORAN.....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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LifeOrDeath

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #10 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:57pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

claim: Islam is innately violent - and I have the actions of muslims to prove it

FACT: No need to have the actions of muslims to prove it even though its there. Islams written ideology the Quran Proves it by stating what Islam actually is or didn't ya know that. Not to mention what has become of the countries it has infested to date.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

response: the majority of muslims are not violent

FACT: Of course not they only believe the violent ideology as written in the Quran and don't act it out.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

claim: they don't count - its the minority who are carrying out Allah's violent commands

FACT: With the majority only marching in the streets against the infidellic west and not these so called minority ones carrying it out. LOL

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

resposne: how can you claim them to be representing "true" Islam if they are in the minority?

FACT: There is only one muslim. He follows the Quran if he does not he simply is NOT a muslim. As stated by the Quran or didn't ya know dat.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

claim: because they are carrying out Allah's violent commands.

FACT: Not one so called mythical moderate muslim to date has EVER refuted the scriptures used by muslim terrorists.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 12:34pm:

and round and round we go...

FACT: Not really, we all know it goes in a muslims left ear and straight out his right. The posts are only made for the less learned people out there. What may appear to be a circle to you is only a response to Islamic propaganda to the rest of the world. No Biggy, we don't takeshit here in Australia. Sometimes we put up with it though until it starts to stink.

There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #11 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:01pm Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm: You have no credibility, as a self confessed moslem. My argument uses common sense and has nothing to do with being a muslim Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:51pm: every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac I find this offensive.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The most retarded circular argument Reply #12 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:05pm LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:57pm: FACT: Not one so called mythical moderate muslim to date has EVER refuted the scriptures used by muslim terrorists.
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LifeOrDeath

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #13 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:05pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:57pm:

FACT: Not one so called mythical moderate muslim to date has EVER refuted the scriptures used by muslim terrorists.

https://thegospelside.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/thats-just-dumb-pic-001.jpg

I agree its pretty dumb and obvious to everyone else.

There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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|dev|null

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Re: The most retarded circular argument
Reply #14 - Aug 4^th, 2015 at 3:42pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:42pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:13pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 4^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

I see you've attracted two of the circular arguers G.

dev,

Like many moslems, you have no credibility.

Except Y., I am NOT a Muslim! Which rather sinks your whole argument, now doesn't it? Grin

dev,

I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but;

You have NOT achieved 'suspension of disbelief'.

Y. I don't care what you believe. I know. Grin

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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