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The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics (Read 1921 times)
Yadda
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The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Aug 5th, 2015 at 1:24am
 

The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics



ISLAM = = blindly believe the clerics, blindly obey the clerics.



"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.....
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith."
Koran 5.101, 102


"We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed..........they ['believers'] can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."
Koran 4.64, 65


"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger [i.e. the clerics], and make not vain your deeds!"
Koran 47:33



There is an aversion to scrutiny, and reasoned examination of ISLAM's tenets and laws, which ISLAM has always promoted and enforced [violently], which is still in vogue among ISLAM's leaders today.

But all is well, in Malaysia.




Quote:

Avoid intellect, logic when it comes to Islam, Perak mufti tells Cabinet
KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 4, 2015

“I advise them not to go overboard. Islam is based on faith…

Don’t make any remarks based on the intellect or logic because they are laws of Allah,” Harussani said.

.....
“The Constitution states that the Islam is the religion of the federation.

Therefore, they cannot deride and belittle Allah’s rules.

If not, then it means they have breached their oaths,” added the mufti.


http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/avoid-intellect-logic-when-it...




It is no use, trying to reason with the moslem.

You are an infidel.

Ergo, you are in error!


"ISLAM is peace!"




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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LifeOrDeath
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #1 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 1:33am
 
Agreed I never try to reason with them, that much is pointless. I only post facts for others who read the propaganda so they don't get sucked in. I have never seen one muslim ever be taught anything about his religion or the fallacies/myths within and accept it for what it is. Not one. Except only when they are dictated too by their clerics and they teach its all true.

I read about the ones that have broken free and they post online. Kudos to them. That would be a very skinny minority I would imagine.

I believe there are good people caught up in it. Its a shame to see them waste away on a bitter tale span by a few men. The sheer years and effort they put into trying to keep a myth happy. To find out its all bogus is a bloody huge anger enticing thing I would imagine. Not sure after many years how I would react if I was born into it.

I'd probably eventually break free I think after many years.

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years  after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin Grin Grin Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #2 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 7:39am
 
LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 1:33am:
Agreed I never try to reason with them, that much is pointless. I only post facts for others who read the propaganda so they don't get sucked in. I have never seen one muslim ever be taught anything about his religion or the fallacies/myths within and accept it for what it is. Not one. Except only when they are dictated too by their clerics and they teach its all true.

I read about the ones that have broken free and they post online. Kudos to them. That would be a very skinny minority I would imagine.

I believe there are good people caught up in it. Its a shame to see them waste away on a bitter tale span by a few men. The sheer years and effort they put into trying to keep a myth happy. To find out its all bogus is a bloody huge anger enticing thing I would imagine. Not sure after many years how I would react if I was born into it.

I'd probably eventually break free I think after many years.




It'ld be hard to break free from a cult.
Most likely all their family and friends are in that cult.
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Stratos
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #3 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 8:01am
 
Yadda, there is a strand of thought among the Christian Faith that argues much the same thing with regards to the Bible (logic etc.) which general goes under the title "presuppositionalism"

Have you heard of them?
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Yadda
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #4 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 10:36am
 
Stratos wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 8:01am:
Yadda, there is a strand of thought among the Christian Faith that argues much the same thing with regards to the Bible (logic etc.) which general goes under the title "presuppositionalism"

Have you heard of them?




Quote:
Presuppositionalism is a school of Christian apologetics that believes the Christian faith is the only basis for rational thought. It presupposes that the Bible is divine revelation and attempts to expose flaws in other worldviews.



Have i heard of them?

No.



I believe that this 'life' ['the universe and everything'] is an elaborate construct.

I can not prove it.

It is what i have come to believe.


I believe that the OT and NT was inspired by God, though written down by flawed men, and interpreted by flawed men.

And the flawed men bit,   .....i am one of them.

Everyone 'in the flesh' is flawed, and none of us can 'see' clearly.       [...see what is real]


1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


THAT, is the path.

AND, we are all in this together!!!





Deuteronomy 8:1
All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
2  And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
3  And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.


Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.





+++


Yadda said, somewhere.....

Quote:

Reading scripture is a form of spiritual invocation [i believe].
And imo, the words and thoughts expressed within scripture, express [to me] the mind of our God.
And, reading those words and thoughts, exposes me to that spirit, which i [choose, and] want to be influenced by.
i.e.
The spirit of God.
It is that simple.






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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 5:25pm
 
Malaysia is one of the examples of a "good" Muslim country that Gandalf and Brian like to trot out. Apparently Brian visited once and escaped with his head still attached, which proves they are just like everyone else.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 6:15pm
 
Malaysia is the place that FD likes to cherry pick from the pew survey to pretend that most muslims support stoning for adultery and death for apostasy.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Stratos
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 6:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 5:25pm:
Malaysia is one of the examples of a "good" Muslim country that Gandalf and Brian like to trot out. Apparently Brian visited once and escaped with his head still attached, which proves they are just like everyone else.


I've been to Malaysia.  It was great.  Alcohol was a bit pricey though, no doubt thanks to those dastardly Musselmen Angry

Far from a perfect country, with a hefty amount of corruption and favoritism, but if you can walk uncovered from your house, buy a char siu and drink it with a beer in public, I'm not sure it is the fundamentalist paradise you are looking for Freediver.

There were only two times when my group were inconvenienced by religion, one was at the National Mosque (women had to cover up) and at Batu Caves (women had to cover their legs), a Hindu holy site complete with cheeky monkeys and like a million steps to climb Tongue
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 6:40pm
 
Tell FD how you didn't lose your head either Stratos - he's looking for new material. His Brian joke is hilarious and all, but it grows a little old after telling it non-stop for two years.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #9 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 7:31pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 6:15pm:
Malaysia is the place

In the surreal tropical politics of contemporary Malaysia it is good business sense to use government funds to make loss-making property investments in order to enrich personal bank accounts. Recent revelations in the UK based Sarawak Report allege that Prime Minister Najib Razak did exactly this: shoveling hundreds of millions of dollars from the state sovereign wealth fund, 1 Malaysia Development Berhad, into his personal offshore account, whilst the fund that Najib inaugurated, after he became PM in 2009, accumulated losses of $(US)11 billion. Najib is not alone in practicing this Malaysian version of creative accountancy. Another government fund, Mara Holdings, has paid over the top prices for Australian real estate: its board of investors skim off the difference between asking price and what the company pays.

Excluded from this gravy train, former PM Mahathir called upon Najib to resign. The exposure of the extent of government corruption casts doubt not only on Najib’s survival, but also that of the ruling United Malay National Organisation. As a result, the current crisis has not only revealed the kleptocratic practice of a political elite, but also how social media, acting outside the state-policed, mainstream media, can expose the limitations of Malaysia’s authoritarian democracy. The manner in which the ruling party has been accustomed to wield its authoritarian grip and the way that grip has weakened is central to understanding the current crisis. Since independence, UMNO, in alliance with smaller ethnically based Chinese and Indian parties, has overseen national development through a Barisan Nasional (National Front) alliance. However, development in the majority, ethnically Malay interest has incurred political and economic costs. Under former PM Mahathir’s long dominance of the party state from 1981-2003, UMNO determined resource allocation and redistributed assets, where minority Chinese, and to a lesser extent Indian business interests, had prevailed. Under Mahathir’s guidance UMNO’s New Economic Policy redistributed socio-economic goods towards the economically deprived majority Malay community and through this ‘constructive protection’ created a modern ‘Malaysian’ identity.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/australia-features/9597002/rumble-in-the-ju...

Read on.

This corrupt to the core place is the best Islam has to offer.

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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #10 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 7:41pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 6:15pm:
Malaysia is the place that FD likes to cherry pick from the pew survey to pretend that most muslims support stoning for adultery and death for apostasy.


Please quote where I have misrepresented the results of the survey Gandalf. I have had to repeat it so many times for you I know it by heart: the majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy and stoning people to death for adultery.

Perhaps this is another case of me saying things without actually saying them.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Karnal
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #11 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 9:47pm
 
Soren wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 7:31pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 6:15pm:
Malaysia is the place

In the surreal tropical politics of contemporary Malaysia it is good business sense to use government funds to make loss-making property investments in order to enrich personal bank accounts. Recent revelations in the UK based Sarawak Report allege that Prime Minister Najib Razak did exactly this: shoveling hundreds of millions of dollars from the state sovereign wealth fund, 1 Malaysia Development Berhad, into his personal offshore account, whilst the fund that Najib inaugurated, after he became PM in 2009, accumulated losses of $(US)11 billion. Najib is not alone in practicing this Malaysian version of creative accountancy. Another government fund, Mara Holdings, has paid over the top prices for Australian real estate: its board of investors skim off the difference between asking price and what the company pays.

Excluded from this gravy train, former PM Mahathir called upon Najib to resign. The exposure of the extent of government corruption casts doubt not only on Najib’s survival, but also that of the ruling United Malay National Organisation. As a result, the current crisis has not only revealed the kleptocratic practice of a political elite, but also how social media, acting outside the state-policed, mainstream media, can expose the limitations of Malaysia’s authoritarian democracy. The manner in which the ruling party has been accustomed to wield its authoritarian grip and the way that grip has weakened is central to understanding the current crisis. Since independence, UMNO, in alliance with smaller ethnically based Chinese and Indian parties, has overseen national development through a Barisan Nasional (National Front) alliance. However, development in the majority, ethnically Malay interest has incurred political and economic costs. Under former PM Mahathir’s long dominance of the party state from 1981-2003, UMNO determined resource allocation and redistributed assets, where minority Chinese, and to a lesser extent Indian business interests, had prevailed. Under Mahathir’s guidance UMNO’s New Economic Policy redistributed socio-economic goods towards the economically deprived majority Malay community and through this ‘constructive protection’ created a modern ‘Malaysian’ identity.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/australia-features/9597002/rumble-in-the-ju...

Read on.

This corrupt to the core place is the best Islam has to offer.



The old boy expands on his travel in Malaysia, his head still intact.

We can still have an open casket, dear boy.
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Karnal
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #12 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 9:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 7:41pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 6:15pm:
Malaysia is the place that FD likes to cherry pick from the pew survey to pretend that most muslims support stoning for adultery and death for apostasy.


Please quote where I have misrepresented the results of the survey Gandalf. I have had to repeat it so many times for you I know it by heart: the majority of Malaysian Muslims support the death penalty for apostasy and stoning people to death for adultery.

Perhaps this is another case of me saying things without actually saying them.


That’s taqiyya, FD. Those jolly little Malaysians are lying through their grinning teeth.
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LifeOrDeath
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #13 - Aug 5th, 2015 at 10:45pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 7:39am:
LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 5th, 2015 at 1:33am:
Agreed I never try to reason with them, that much is pointless. I only post facts for others who read the propaganda so they don't get sucked in. I have never seen one muslim ever be taught anything about his religion or the fallacies/myths within and accept it for what it is. Not one. Except only when they are dictated too by their clerics and they teach its all true.

I read about the ones that have broken free and they post online. Kudos to them. That would be a very skinny minority I would imagine.

I believe there are good people caught up in it. Its a shame to see them waste away on a bitter tale span by a few men. The sheer years and effort they put into trying to keep a myth happy. To find out its all bogus is a bloody huge anger enticing thing I would imagine. Not sure after many years how I would react if I was born into it.

I'd probably eventually break free I think after many years.




It'ld be hard to break free from a cult.
Most likely all their family and friends are in that cult.


Add to that the physical community their parents have located them in as well. Probably multiple generations above you born into it. Its a shame it was started in a country with a simple people and it took hold of a few generations. The author is long dead and gone. I bet he never imagined his power grab of the people would not be seen through after all these years.

It seems conversations even today on islam are so ridiculous you have to shake your head that you are talking to people that actually talk like its all so serious and real. I mean the guys can wear Armani Suits but the women a garbage bag. If one can't see through that one alone one never will.

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years  after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin Grin Grin Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.
 
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Pho Huc
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Re: The stifling dictatorial authority of the clerics
Reply #14 - Aug 6th, 2015 at 2:06pm
 
Its ok Why,
You can get designer burkhas too!

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1462650/images/o-BEYONCE-facebook.jpg
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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)
 
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