Australian Politics Forum - Jews threaten there jewish president

Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #45 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 3:36pm Yes, indeed ... tap-dances better than Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers ever did. Maybe even better than Bojangles. Or a cat on a hot tin roof.
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #46 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 3:36pm bummer
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Jews threaten there jewish president
Reply #47 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 4:06pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 3:17pm:

Gandalf, contrary to your repeated assertions, this massacre did not take place in the context of an ongoing war. The war was over.

Interesting - a war ends with the ending of one battle does it?

Did hostilities with the Quraysh end that day? No.

Did the Quraysh continue attacking the Medinan state either directly or through proxies? Yes they did.

FD on what basis can you claim that the war between Medina and The Quraysh ended with the conclusion of the battle of the trench?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #48 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 6:17pm Did Muhammed continue robbing their caravans?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Jews threaten there jewish president
Reply #49 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 6:45pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 6:17pm:

Did Muhammed continue robbing their caravans?

Is that your way of quietly conceding the point?

What treaty was signed that ended the war? When was the treaty of Hudaybiyyah - the first settlement signed between Medina and the Quraysh FD? Was it 4 years after the battle of the trench?

When an invading army withdraws intact after failing to defeat their enemy - with no diplomatic overtures by either side to conclude a settlement - does it make sense to declare that the war had ended?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Jews threaten there jewish president
Reply #50 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 6:58pm

It might perhaps make sense for Muhammed to stop raiding their caravans, if he thought they were such a grave threat the the existence of his Islamic state. You can't really have it both ways - they were such a grave threat that he had to slaughter an entire tribe, but not such a grave threat that he had to stop raiding their caravans and find some way of supporting himself independently. Muhammed was belligerent from the moment he gained a position of power. You cannot use his ongoing belligerence as justification for his belligerence.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #51 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:11pm Just so we're clear FD - is that your way of maintaining your silly claim that the war had ended? Or are you now trying to disown that?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #52 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:16pm I am not trying to disown it. Gandalf, if you would prefer, we can make this thread about the issue of whether Muhammed engaged in collective punishment, and make the new thread I started about your efforts at moral equivalence with Hiroshima. Is that what you want?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Jews threaten there jewish president
Reply #53 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:52pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:16pm:

I am not trying to disown it.

So why can't you come up with a single credible argument for why it must have ended?

My points about a) no treaty until 4 years later b) no end to hostilities c) no sort of political settlement - that you ignored - puts something of a dampener on that claim wouldn't you say?

Do you have any argument to support your rather dramatic claim FD - apart from silly quips about Muhammad continuing the raids?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #54 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:00pm Jeez its carrying on in here too. Boring.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #55 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:43pm Quote: So why can't you come up with a single credible argument for why it must have ended? The Meccan army packed up and went home.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Jews threaten there jewish president
Reply #56 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 9:53pm

armies a long way from home tend to do that when they run out of supplies and don't defeat their enemy in a timely fashion. Its so they don't, you know, starve and stuff.

So wars end whenever an army retreats from a failed campaign do they? Tell me thats your argument for why the war ended.

I think even you are seeing how stupid you are being here.

It will be interesting to see in future if this BS argument is used when you next dig up this topic.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49380 At my desk.	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #57 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 10:25pm Quote: So wars end whenever an army retreats from a failed campaign do they? It depends how far they retreat. The Meccan army went all the way home. That's usually how wars end Gandalf, if there is an army left.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Jews threaten there jewish president
Reply #58 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 7:49am

Wars usually stop when hostilities stop.

Hostilities between the Quraysh and Medina continued through Quraysh proxies, infiltrators, informers etc. Muslims were banned by the Quraysh from entering Mecca - about as clear a declaration of war as you can get. Hostilities did not end until the Treaty of Hudaybiyya (which was then broken by the Quraysh).

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Jews threaten there jewish president Reply #59 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 1:06pm FD's attempt to deflect and obfuscate the sheer idiocy of his position in the usual way - by starting a new thread and pretending its an issue about something else - has been noted, and the thread duly deleted. Feel free to address the idiocy of your argument here FD.
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