Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 21 22 23 24 25 
Send Topic Print
Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering (Read 73218 times)
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #330 - May 2nd, 2017 at 12:17pm
 
freediver wrote on May 1st, 2017 at 8:56pm:
You said there was a single non-contemporary source. Yet here we have a quote from one of the victims.


Rubbish. We have someone claiming 200 years after the fact that some guy told him that some guy told him that some guy told him (x a few more isnads) - all through word of mouth - that someone claims to be from the tribe that was executed by Muhammad.

By the way, I was wrong - Ibn Ishaq was was writing about 100 years after the event. So in fact we have zero contemporary sources for the event. Not to mention zero archaeological evidence, zero physical evidence of any kind - and zero credibility in the "sources" that wrote about it. But of course in FD world thats rock solid proof.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49586
At my desk.
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #331 - May 2nd, 2017 at 6:59pm
 
Quote:
So in fact we have zero contemporary sources for the event.


We have a quote from a guy who was actually there. What reason would Muslims have to make that up?

Muslims cannot even be sure when the Koran itself was compiled into a complete written form, so if you are going to be that picky about it you might as well discard your entire religion.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 2nd, 2017 at 12:09pm:
Thanks FD, thanks for confirming that you fabricated the bit about me justifying sex slavery


Ah. Are you conceding that you used the slaughter of every adult male as justification for enslaving all the women at the same time as believing it never actually happened?
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2017 at 7:05pm by freediver »  

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #332 - May 2nd, 2017 at 7:16pm
 
freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2017 at 6:59pm:
What reason would Muslims have to make that up?


Gee I don't know FD - maybe to justify slaughtering jews and/or POWs? You do realise that over 90% of ahadiths were deemed to be fake by the very guy who compiled the so called 'sahih' (authentic) collection of ahadith right?

freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2017 at 6:59pm:
Ah. Are you conceding that you used the slaughter of every adult male as justification for enslaving all the women at the same time as believing it never actually happened?


Justify your fairy tales however way you like FD - doesn't change the fact that you lied about me justifying sex slavery.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49586
At my desk.
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #333 - May 2nd, 2017 at 7:20pm
 
What did I lie about Gandalf?

Does a quote from a guy who was actually there count as a contemporary source?

Is there anything in the Koran that contradicts this?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #334 - May 2nd, 2017 at 7:34pm
 
freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2017 at 7:20pm:
What did I lie about Gandalf?


about me justifying sex slavery.

freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2017 at 7:20pm:
Does a quote from a guy who was actually there count as a contemporary source?


ah history for dummies it is then...

a "source" is a written document of some kind. Thats what history is FD, written accounts. A "contemporary source" is a document that was written contemperaneously (ie written at the time the events it describes were taking place).

The hadith you refer to was written over 200 years after the event it describes. It claims to contain a chain of oral transmissions going back to the events of the Banu Qurayza, in which someone is alleged to be witness. As far as history is concerned, that hadith is a secondary source, and a pretty dodgy one at that by today's scholarly standards.

This is how silly your argument is FD: its just like if I took a piece of paper and wrote on it that I heard from some guy who heard from some guy who heard from some guy etc etc - going back for 200 years (for that is literally what a hadith is) - that someone claimed to dine at Captain Bligh's banquet at government house in Sydney - and hailing that is a "contemporary source" on the history of the Rum Rebellion. You would say thats ridiculous right? Well that is 100% identical to what you are trying to do here with this hadith. No difference whatsoever.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49586
At my desk.
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #335 - May 3rd, 2017 at 6:56pm
 
Quote:
about me justifying sex slavery.


That wasn't a lie Gandalf. That is exactly what you did. You claimed that you always believed the story was fabricated. But at the same time you used the fact that all the men were killed to justify enslaving the women.

Quote:
a "source" is a written document of some kind


It is written on wikipedia.

Quote:
The hadith you refer to was written over 200 years after the event it describes.


Much of the Koran was written after Muhammad died. Does that mean the Koran no longer counts? Or do you pick and choose when to apply this logic?

Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #336 - May 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm
 
freediver wrote on May 3rd, 2017 at 6:56pm:
That wasn't a lie Gandalf. That is exactly what you did. You claimed that you always believed the story was fabricated. But at the same time you used the fact that all the men were killed to justify enslaving the women.


Here's what we call a logical fallacy FD - the assumption that "enslaving the women" is a synonym for sex slavery. I have always maintained that under Islam it is not. You even quoted me describing the slavery as protective custody for people who couldn't fend for themselves. You would have to be pretty sick in the head to equate protective custody with sex slavery - but I know you love to project these sick fantasies on to muslims.

So yes, you are lying to say that I have ever justified sex slavery.

freediver wrote on May 3rd, 2017 at 6:56pm:
Much of the Koran was written after Muhammad died. Does that mean the Koran no longer counts? Or do you pick and choose when to apply this logic?


No FD, the Quran was entirely written contemporaneously. The parchments were kept for several decades before they were compiled into book form.

And besides, the Quran is not considered an historical source by muslims - it is quite literally the direct word of God. Ahadith on the other hand are documents written by man - about a man. Historical documents in any sense of the word. Muslims have never claimed otherwise.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38881
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #337 - May 7th, 2017 at 7:06pm
 
Quote:
And besides, the Quran is not considered an historical source by muslims - it is quite literally the direct word of God.


Huh?  God wrote it?

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #338 - May 7th, 2017 at 7:14pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 7:06pm:
Quote:
And besides, the Quran is not considered an historical source by muslims - it is quite literally the direct word of God.


Huh?  God wrote it?



The Quran is, and always has been written and sits in heaven (according to Islamic beliefs).

God recited what was already written to Muhammad through the angel Gybriel.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38881
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #339 - May 7th, 2017 at 7:47pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 7:14pm:
Aussie wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 7:06pm:
Quote:
And besides, the Quran is not considered an historical source by muslims - it is quite literally the direct word of God.


Huh?  God wrote it?



The Quran is, and always has been written and sits in heaven (according to Islamic beliefs).

God recited what was already written to Muhammad through the angel Gybriel.


Skyfairy horseshit.

Do you believe God screwed, in an adulterous relationship, the Virgin Wife of a hard working carpenter to spawn Jesus Christ?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49586
At my desk.
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #340 - May 7th, 2017 at 8:04pm
 
Quote:
Here's what we call a logical fallacy FD - the assumption that "enslaving the women" is a synonym for sex slavery.


In Islam's case it is. And to justify this treatment, you cited the slaughter of every adult male in the tribe. Yet you also claim that you have also believed that slaughter never happened. How does that work Gandalf? You appear to be avoiding this point.

Quote:
I have always maintained that under Islam it is not.


The reality of Islam is quite different to your fantasy Gandalf. We even have modern Aussie Muslim converts insisting that sex is a man's right and a woman's responsibility.

Quote:
You even quoted me describing the slavery as protective custody for people who couldn't fend for themselves.


Yes I thought that was particularly good example of your self delusion and your efforts to rewrite history when it comes to Muhammad's genocidal tendencies.

Quote:
You would have to be pretty sick in the head to equate protective custody with sex slavery


Yet that is exactly what you do Gandalf. Did Muhammad ever describe it as protective custody? Or did you make that one up yourself?

Quote:
No FD, the Quran was entirely written contemporaneously.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

After Muhammad would receive revelations he would later recite it to his companions, who also memorized it or wrote it down. Before the Quran was commonly available in written form, speaking it from memory prevailed as the mode of teaching it to others. The practice of memorizing the whole Quran is still practiced among Muslims. Millions of people have memorized the entire Quran in its original Arabic. This fact, taken in the context of 7th-century Arabia, was not an extraordinary feat. People of that time had a penchant for recited poetry and had developed their skills in memorization to a remarkable degree. Events and competitions that featured the recitation of elaborate poetry were of great interest.[6]
People questioned the nature and modes of Muhammad’s revelations. The Meccans of Muhammad judged the Quranic revelation based on their understanding of ‘inspiration’. For them, poetry was closely connected to inspiration from a higher spiritual source. For this reason when Muhammad began preaching and reciting the Quran, the Meccans accused him of being a poet (21.5) or a ‘poet possessed’(37.36).[7]
Due to the fact that the Quran was revealed in disjointed verses and chapters, a point came when it needed to be gathered into a coherent whole text. There are disagreements among both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars as to when the Quran was compiled. Some believe Muhammad compiled it before he died, while others believe it was collected by either Ali ibn Abu Talib or Abu Bakr.

The society during the time of Muhammad was predominantly oral and for this reason he would recite the Quranic verses to his Companions and instruct them to memorize it. Due to this, people question whether the Quran was ever written and collected during the time of Muhammad.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96969
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #341 - May 8th, 2017 at 1:35pm
 
freediver wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:04pm:
The reality of Islam is quite different to your fantasy Gandalf. We even have modern Aussie Muslim converts insisting that sex is a man's right and a woman's responsibility.


Ah yes, Abu. The reality of Islam.

Talk about sinister.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49586
At my desk.
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #342 - May 8th, 2017 at 7:38pm
 
What do you think the reality was for female slaves captured in Muhammad's raids?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96969
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #343 - May 9th, 2017 at 8:47pm
 
freediver wrote on May 8th, 2017 at 7:38pm:
What do you think the reality was for female slaves captured in Muhammad's raids?


Was?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #344 - May 13th, 2017 at 8:54pm
 
freediver wrote on May 7th, 2017 at 8:04pm:
the assumption that "enslaving the women" is a synonym for sex slavery.


In Islam's case it is.


The world according to you.

Just because I disagree with this assertion doesn't make me a liar FD.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 23 24 25 
Send Topic Print