Australian Politics Forum - Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #30 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:04pm Because he hasn't answered matty
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #31 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:24pm

FD you've probably realised already I will be deleting any further hissy-fit threads on this same topic. The reason I won't answer your questions is because they are the same questions that have been answered a thousand times before in countless other threads. Since your the champion necro-poster, I'm sure you won't have any trouble digging them up. And by doing so you might get a whif of how pointless I find answering your questions - given that you will just come back and ask the exact same questions a few months later.

A question that *HASN'T* been answered though is my question on Hiroshima. And since that your defense about why you don't have to answer has fallen flat on its face on at least one of your arguments - that unlike Hiroshima, the war had ended during Muhammad's executions. The claim is based on absolutely nothing - no treaty had been signed, hostilities remained - and so the war continued on any measure. The question is absolutely relevant on the same general principle that you constantly troll me about (how can muslims reconcile their claims to a peaceful religion given what Muhammad did). That is, how can someone reconcile their peaceful outlook with their support for deliberate mass slaughter of 10s of thousands of women and children. For me its a no-brainer - it can be reconciled in both instances. But the question is for you because you argue so intensely that a belief in Islam cannot be reconciled with a belief in peace. In my view, if you can understand the reasons why it can be reconciled in the case of Hiroshima, then you will understand how it can be reconciled with Islam - as long as you are honest with yourself about it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #32 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:25pm

I have answered every question you asked in the other thread about your moral equivalence with Hiroshima. Still you cannot bring yourself to give a straight answer about whether the Jews Muhammed slaughtered were punished on an individual basis. Are you going to change the subject of every thread you get stuck in to Hiroshima? Would it help if I started another thread?

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The reason I won't answer your questions is because they are the same questions that have been answered a thousand times before in countless other threads.

I have been through all of them Gandalf. In not a single one did you explain whether they were punished on an individual basis, except to vaguely concede that they were collectively punished, which kind of undermines what you have argued here. You are correct that we have discussed this plenty of times before, but those discussions involved you rapidly changing between dozens of different and often contradictory excuses and justifications for Muhammed slaughtering Jews. I have never been able to get you to follow through on one of those justifications. You just change the topic as quickly as possible.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #33 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:33pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:25pm:

I have answered every question you asked in the other thread about your moral equivalence with Hiroshima.

Sorry FD, if you wouldn't mind directing me to where you answered "yes" or "no" to my yes/no question.

Thanks.

I have given you more than enough straight answers on the Banu Qurayza issue over a period of nearly 3 years. You literally are repeating the exact same questions you ask every time. Why don't you humour me FD - go dig up those old posts. You're never shy to dig up old posts to show how sinister dear old Abu or gandalf were - why not to get the answers you are so insistent on getting now?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #34 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:42pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:04pm: Because he hasn't answered matty Why get all upset and call people matty. Does matty's ghost haunt you ? It is very childish you know. It sounds more like he never answered in the way you wanted him too, to me.
Back to top	There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time. IP Logged

freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #35 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:44pm

Feel free to repeat any questions in the other thread you think I missed Gandalf.

I have dug up those posts Gandalf. And you have not given a straight answer, because I have not even asked this question before. You have vaguely conceded that they were punished collectively, yet you now seem to be implying that they were punished individually, but won't actually say it. Hence the question.

Were the Jews punished on an individual basis?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #36 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:19pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Feel free to repeat any questions in the other thread you think I missed Gandalf.

But you've already claimed that you've responded adequately - which indicates to me I'm not going to get a straight "yes" or "no" answer to my simple yes/no question. Is that correct?

Which is a shame, as I think it is highly relevant to this topic of "Islamic justification for jew slaughtering". I think its useful to use the perspectives which you can better relate to, in order for me to explain this "Islamic justification" you seem so incredulous about. But Hiroshima is just one perspective we can use - we can use any genocide or atrocity committed by the west that is routinely dismissed and/or apologised for by so many people who also claim to stand for peace/freedom/democracy etc. Take your pick, there are so many to choose from. And if you consider my highly relevant question - how can the two seemingly opposing attitudes be held by the same person - then I believe you can begin to understand how "Islamic justification for jew slaughtering" is not necessarily something you absolutely have to be skeptical about and sneer at it every 5 minutes. You might actually begin to understand it as simply a different perspective to your own, and in which the persons who hold this perspective are every bit as sincere about peace and tolerance as the persons who hold an entirely different perspective about the episode.

And at that point, you may even realise that the fact that they are not exactly equivalent analogies does not invalidate the key point in any way.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #37 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:36pm

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But you've already claimed that you've responded adequately

I have responded to my satisfaction. But feel free to ask again.

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which indicates to me I'm not going to get a straight "yes" or "no" answer to my simple yes/no question. Is that correct?

There's only one way to find out Gandalf. Here, let me demonstrate.

Were the Jews punished on an individual basis?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #38 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 9:37pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2015 at 8:36pm:

Were the Jews punished on an individual basis?

no. But you already knew that was my answer didn't you? Since I clearly spelled that out the last time you asked me - which funnily enough you quoted in the OP.

Your turn now - do you support Hiroshima - yes or no?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #39 - Aug 9^th, 2015 at 10:22pm

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no. But you already knew that was my answer didn't you?

No. You seem to be backpedaling. How do you reconcile this with them not being collectively punished? They were a mindless collective. They were punished on a collective basis for a crime commited by their leader. It sounds like the textbook definition of collective punishment and it's justification.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #40 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 7:48pm

Gandalf, you haven't described these back-stabbing, treacherous Jews as a mindless collective who deserved to be punished for the crime of their leader in over a year now. Nor have you talked about them being punished as a collective without it being collective punishment.

Have you changed your mind, or did you merely realise at some point that it was kind of a bad look?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #41 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:26pm I stand by everything I've said on the matter FD. Thought about answering my question yet? Do you think its possible to stand up for human rights - while at the same time condoning the slaughter of innocents? - any type of innocents you like - they can even be POWs. Yes or no FD.
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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #42 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:27pm Yawn
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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #43 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:37pm

To me this looks like you backpedaling Gandalf. Can you explain the apparent contradiction?

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Sorry for hijacking the other thread.

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:17am:

We don't have a different perspective. You agree that they were not individually tried and punished, or even guilty in an individual sense. You agree that it was collective punishment.

Right?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:31am:

Nope.

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this, by insisting the Jews were a collective?

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They were all given the opportunity to disown the betrayal and repledge their loyalty to their city.

You have said this a few times lately Gandalf, but this argument always disappears into thin air as soon as I try to look at it. How were they given this opportunity?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this,

yes. Quote me. I recall one of your usual 50+ page threads in which you tried to put those words in my mouth, and which I repeatedly rejected.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96186 Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #44 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:09pm FD, why did you leave your Muhammed Erring thread? I feel we were really getting somewhere. Please explain.
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