Australian Politics Forum - Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49222 At my desk.	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #75 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:14pm Gandalf you keep accusing others of using the mindless collective argument, but you are the only one here who has actually invoked that argument, and you did so to promote genocide. This will only get old when Islam gets old. Can you not see the hypocrisy in your own words?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #76 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 4:37pm

Again, for the selective listeners:

Quote:

Thats exactly what they were. Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was.

This is the rationale - firmly rooted in historical fact - that FD finds so offensive and hypocritical.

As I've said time and time again, it was not a slur against jews en masse, it was a very specific observation of 7th century arab society (and yes, the Bany Qurayza were more 'arab' than 'jew'). There were a few hundred members of the Banu Qurayza, and saying that they were 'of one mind' is not at all unreasonable or implausible given the size and the predominant tribal culture. Particularly in a time of war. Thats how pre-Islamic arab tribal society worked - you submitted your individuality to the will of the tribe. This is not some racist, bigoted slur, it is historical fact. Its almost embarrassing that I need to explain the difference between judging this tiny pocket of men from a warring tribe over 1400 years ago as a 'mindless collective' - and relegating the entire population of muslims, worldwide, across probably hundreds, if not thousands of different nations and tribes as a mindless collective.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49222 At my desk.	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #77 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:01pm Did they have their own personality Gandalf? Can you elaborate on what you mean by "a few hundred"?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #78 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:13pm freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:01pm: Did they have their own personality Gandalf? Can you elaborate on what you mean by "a few hundred"? You're not even interested in listening FD, you're too busy creating new memes. Carry on.
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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #79 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:17pm

Quote:

There were a few hundred members of the Banu Qurayza, and saying that they were 'of one mind' is not at all unreasonable or implausible given the size

When you said a few hundred, did you actually mean a few thousand?

Are you trying to disown your previous statement that they did not have their own personality?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #80 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:26pm freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:17pm: When you said a few hundred, did you actually mean a few thousand? There were a few thousand Banu Qurayza now? This meme gets better and better.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49222 At my desk.	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #81 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:28pm So what did you actually mean? Can you be more specific? After all, this is the core excuse for your racist propaganda against them.
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Karnal

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #82 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:35pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:28pm:

So what did you actually mean? Can you be more specific? After all, this is the core excuse for your racist propaganda against them.

Yes, G, you tell FD why you've been saying they're a mindless collective since....

Well, since before you even came here. Explain your racist propaganda please.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #83 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

Are you trying to disown your previous statement that they did not have their own personality?

Social psychologists don't believe in individual personality. They argue that individual minds cannot exist outside the social constructs they exist in.

If this theory is correct, then nowhere is it more applicable than in the pre-Islamic arab tribes of the 7th century. Whether or not they had their own 'personality' is really neither here nor there - the pertinent point is that they subordinated their individual traits to the will of the tribe - or more correctly, their individual traits stemmed from the will of the tribe.

Do you still think these arguments about a single tiny tribe 1400 years ago is comparable to saying all muslims today everywhere in the world across hundreds, if not thousands of nations and tribes, are all of one mind (in a negative way) - and therefore deserving of the same condemnation?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #84 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:28pm: So what did you actually mean? Can you be more specific? After all, this is the core excuse for your racist propaganda against them. Mean by what? Its you who made up this bit about 'thousands' if Banu Qurayza, not me.
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Karnal

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #85 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:28pm:

So what did you actually mean? Can you be more specific? After all, this is the core excuse for your racist propaganda against them.

Mean by what?

Its you who made up this bit about 'thousands' if Banu Qurayza, not me.

Well, who said the Jews have a "hive mind"? Who said they have "collective guilt"? Who said they deserve to be put to the sword because they have "no individuality - none whatsoever"?

Tell me that, Moslem.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #86 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:17pm:

Are you trying to disown your previous statement that they did not have their own personality?

Social psychologists don't believe in individual personality. They argue that individual minds cannot exist outside the social constructs they exist in.

If this theory is correct, then nowhere is it more applicable than in the pre-Islamic arab tribes of the 7th century. Whether or not they had their own 'personality' is really neither here nor there - the pertinent point is that they subordinated their individual traits to the will of the tribe - or more correctly, their individual traits stemmed from the will of the tribe.

Sounds like scientific racism to me Gandalf. What do you believe? Did they have their own personality?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:28pm:

So what did you actually mean? Can you be more specific? After all, this is the core excuse for your racist propaganda against them.

Mean by what?

Its you who made up this bit about 'thousands' if Banu Qurayza, not me.

What did you mean when you tried to justify your racist propaganda by saying there were only a few hundred of them? Can you be a bit more specific, or can you only make it work by keeping the numbers vague?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #87 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:54pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

What did you mean when you tried to justify your racist propaganda by saying there were only a few hundred of them?

The figures fluctuate between 900, 800, 700, 600 - sometimes even less.

Apologies if the descriptor "a few hundred" is somehow misleading and racist.

Perhaps you can nominate the "correct" figure, and I promise to stick to it.

Still not sure where the 'few thousand' bit comes into it though... Undecided

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #88 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:56pm

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

What do you believe? Did they have their own personality?

one becomes used to repeating oneself when discussing with FD:

Quote:

Whether or not they had their own 'personality' is really neither here nor there - the pertinent point is that they subordinated their individual traits to the will of the tribe - or more correctly, their individual traits stemmed from the will of the tribe.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #89 - Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:57pm

Quote:

The figures fluctuate between 900, 800, 700, 600 - sometimes even less.

900 what Gandalf? "Members of the Banu Qurayza"?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:56pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 18^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

What do you believe? Did they have their own personality?

one becomes used to repeating oneself when discussing with FD:

Quote:

Whether or not they had their own 'personality' is really neither here nor there - the pertinent point is that they subordinated their individual traits to the will of the tribe - or more correctly, their individual traits stemmed from the will of the tribe.

It is your argument Gandalf. And it is racist propaganda.

Did they have their own personality?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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