Australian Politics Forum - Do we even realise?

MumboJumbo

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Do we even realise?
Aug 10^th, 2015 at 1:28pm

That we're a bunch of racists:
Quote:

Booing Adam Goodes: are we even aware we're racists?

The furore over booing Adam Goodes reveals white society still hasn't learnt to embrace the Indigenous one, even in football. We'll give on our terms, appreciate on our terms, but when it's not on our terms, we turn on it, writes Jeremy Stanford.

Collingwood nearly lost me as a fan 20 years ago when then-club president Allan McAlister made his infamous remark about Indigenous players only needing to behave like white players to gain respect.

Racism was so rife at Victoria Park in those days that Nicky Winmar saw the need to raise his Guernsey and point with pride to the colour of his skin. I'm a third generation Pies supporter, but this racism was driving me away.

Thankfully, the club changed. Not long after the Winmar incident, my brother witnessed a fan shouting racist bile, and someone nearby calmly tapped the guy on the shoulder and in no uncertain terms told him the error of his ways. We'd entered a new era where racism wasn't tolerated and the club suddenly found itself at the forefront of programs designed to integrate and educate. I'm proud of that.

Then came Eddie McGuire. He is a passionate advocate for integration in the sport. His work outside the club with Indigenous youth is genuinely inspiring. Yet, inconceivably, he made a "McAlister-like" gaff on radio about Goodes coming to promote the musical, King Kong, on the back of a Pies fan calling him an ape. It was dizzying stuff.

It got me to wondering where white society has actually got to when it comes to racism in our country. Have we truly absorbed the message or are we just mouthing it to make ourselves feel better? Is the racism still sitting there under the surface ready to bubble up when we're off our guard? Are we even aware that deep down we're racists?

My wife is from Auckland. On a trip home one year, we went to the Auckland Theatre Company to see All My Sons, by Arthur Miller. One of the sons was played by a Maori - the others were all white. When the Maori son arrived on stage for the first time I turned to my wife and made a face. She didn't know what I was talking about. I prompted her: "That son is Maori." She hadn't even noticed. It wasn't a "thing" - casting like that happens all the time there. It got me to thinking, if this was a Melbourne Theatre Company play and one of the sons had been cast with an Indigenous actor it would have been a brave "artistic choice". A statement.

This is where our country is at. White society is still so removed from our Indigenous brothers and sisters that when Lewis Jetta and Adam Goodes perform a war dance in a game of football we can only see division. We can't embrace it like the Kiwis embrace the haka before a game of rugby. It becomes a threat because it's not a version of what white players have traditionally done and therefore it's unacceptable. It's a statement.

When I saw Goodes perform his dance for the first time I was dazzled. Rather than just lining up at the start of the game and honouring the concept of an Indigenous round, this man had actually treated us to some culture.

It broke my heart that it caused controversy rather than deliver enchantment. It meant that we couldn't truly turn the Indigenous round over to the indigenous players, we had to lend it to them on the condition that they behaved like white players. Sound familiar?

Tom Wills is widely attributed to be the father of our game. As a kid growing up in western Victoria he learnt Marngrook with the local Indigenous kids and even spoke their language. It's inconceivable that some of the game we play now doesn't derive from that childhood experience, but it's denied in our official story of the game.

To me this is telling. As a culture, we still haven't learnt to embrace the Indigenous one. It's still separate. We'll give on our terms, appreciate on our terms, but when it's not on our terms, we turn on it.

I'd be happy to see every Indigenous player from now on perform the war dance every time they kick a goal. That would rub it in all our white faces until we truly got the message that you are part of this culture on your own terms and not on the terms that white society deems to be acceptable.

Jeremy Stanford is an actor, writer, director and Collingwood supporter.

Link

Racism is far too prevalent in our society, with people being victimised just because of their pride in indigenous culture. Look at Adam Goodes. Look at Eddie McGuire. Look at the AFL commentary teams -- especially Derm. Shame, Australia. Shame.

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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:

Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?

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Pho Huc

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #1 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 5:55pm

I think half the problem is people getting so bent out of shape at being called racist that they have to make up a heap of garbage to justify there behavior.

There is nothing wrong with being fundamentally racist. Its a part of our underlying psyche, A remnant from our very early tribal days. We tend to categorize people by their external appearance, and we tend to favor those who resemble us.

Nothing intrinsically wrong with any of that, provided we recognize it.

The problem comes when we try to intellectualize our base instincts, to try and justify with reason actions based on instincts.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Do we even realise? Reply #2 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 6:11pm Pho Huc wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 5:55pm: There is nothing wrong with being fundamentally racist. There is when it leads to discrimination or persecution - or worse.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Pho Huc

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #3 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 7:57pm

If I can rephrase my statement(it was a little crude)

Their is nothing abnormal about identifying people based on their racial appearance(If you have been raised in a mono culture)
The danger lies in predicting another persons behavior based on their external appearance.

When I say their is nothing wrong with being fundamentally racist I mean from a clinical perspective.

Someone who was unable to visually discriminate people with different appearances would have a problem with their brain. I shouldn't have used the term racism, i should have used the term "racially aware"

Soz!

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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LifeOrDeath Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1548	Re: Do we even realise? Reply #4 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 8:30pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 6:11pm: Pho Huc wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 5:55pm: There is nothing wrong with being fundamentally racist. There is when it leads to discrimination or persecution - or worse. Thank goodness Islam isn't a race then.
Back to top	There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time. IP Logged

Lionel Edriess

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #5 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 8:46pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 8:30pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 5:55pm:

There is nothing wrong with being fundamentally racist.

There is when it leads to discrimination or persecution - or worse.

Thank goodness Islam isn't a race then.

Then what's all the phobia about?

You know, the one that makes all the news.

Cool

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Toughen up, Australia!

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LifeOrDeath

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #6 - Aug 10^th, 2015 at 9:01pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 8:46pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 8:30pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Aug 10^th, 2015 at 5:55pm:

There is nothing wrong with being fundamentally racist.

There is when it leads to discrimination or persecution - or worse.

Thank goodness Islam isn't a race then.

Then what's all the phobia about?

You know, the one that makes all the news.

Cool

Not quite sure, there are the ones that don't want islam infesting the place they don't seem too scared of islam as they are protesting against it. I guess your are talking about the apologists and probably the looneys that need to breast beat that know nothing about islam and are too scared of offending islam I guess. Not sure why they are screaming racism though thats weird. I guess in some strange way they need to pretend islam is a race. They seem a very simple bunch those islamophobes.

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There is no evidence of the existence of a muslim,mohammed,or quran until 60 years after mohammed was supposed to have died. Grin

Posting on islam just encourages them and is a waste of time.

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|dev|null

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #7 - Aug 11^th, 2015 at 11:16am

Their actions are determined by their fears. Their Islamophobia makes them afraid of Islam and Muslims so they resist. Their phobia is based on an unreasoning fear, which controls their actions.

What interests me is that all too often you ask a racist if they fear Islam or Muslims and they'll answer, "Yes!" It seems that the same sort of fears drives racism and Islamophobia. Fear that they will lose control of the society around them, they will become a minority, that society will change and they won't know how to cope or manage their place in it. They fear encountering people with different views and faces. They need to learn to accept that as an individual they will never be able to control others. They need to learn to accept other people.

You never know, they might even find friends and allies amongst them! Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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moses

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #8 - Aug 11^th, 2015 at 6:11pm

Oh gee frightened of muslims, I reckon that islam / muslims are on the way out, due to their own psyche.

The extracts are 10 years old however I don't think the figures would have improved, due to cultural / religious disincentives, civil wars, islamic inbreeding, low I.Q. etc.

High mortality and malnutrition affect Muslim children most says UN children's agency

21 September 2005 –

Islamic States account for the world's highest child mortality rates, where 60 per cent of children who die from disease and malnutrition never make it to their first birthday, according to a joint report released today by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF).

Over 4.3 million Muslim children worldwide under the age of five die every year, many will never attend primary school, and over one third suffer from persistent malnutrition, said the report, which will serve as a basis for discussions in the upcoming ministerial meetings regarding Muslim children to be held in Morocco in November. In all, OIC Member States account for a quarter of the world's 2.3 billion children, in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

Children who live in Islamic sub-Saharan Africa suffer from the most severe deprivations, and child mortality rates in the region are more than double the world average. Many OIC countries have some of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world: in Afghanistan, one in six pregnancies results in death. In African OIC Member States, there is one death for every 15 pregnancies, though globally the average is one in 74.

Primary school attendance is very low in OIC nations, with more than half the adult population illiterate, and sometimes 70 per cent of women unable to read and write.
===================================================

So wars, malnutrition, no education, disease, inbreeding and it's associated problems, low I.Q. etc.etc. will be the end of them.

I suppose in time they will wake up that they have been duped by their apologists.

The apologists are totally opposed to muslims being responsible for themselves, the apologists encourage them to stay exactly where they are, with the *muslims are no different to Christians argument* *it's all the wests fault* etc. etc..

Well the Christians and the west are forging ahead, while the muslims have the highest child mortality, lack of nutrition, lack of education, huge inbreeding problems, lowest I.Q..

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Soren

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #9 - Aug 11^th, 2015 at 6:39pm

|dev|null wrote on Aug 11^th, 2015 at 11:16am:

Their actions are determined by their fears. Their Islamophobia makes them afraid of Islam and Muslims so they resist. Their phobia is based on an unreasoning fear, which controls their actions.

What interests me is that all too often you ask a racist if they fear Islam or Muslims and they'll answer, "Yes!" It seems that the same sort of fears drives racism and Islamophobia. Fear that they will lose control of the society around them, they will become a minority, that society will change and they won't know how to cope or manage their place in it. They fear encountering people with different views and faces. They need to learn to accept that as an individual they will never be able to control others. They need to learn to accept other people.

You never know, they might even find friends and allies amongst them! Grin

That's what the brown shirts said to the Naziphobes and the Bolsheviks to the sons of Mother Russia.

Uncanny.

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|dev|null

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #10 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:05am

Soren wrote on Aug 11^th, 2015 at 6:39pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 11^th, 2015 at 11:16am:

Their actions are determined by their fears. Their Islamophobia makes them afraid of Islam and Muslims so they resist. Their phobia is based on an unreasoning fear, which controls their actions.

What interests me is that all too often you ask a racist if they fear Islam or Muslims and they'll answer, "Yes!" It seems that the same sort of fears drives racism and Islamophobia. Fear that they will lose control of the society around them, they will become a minority, that society will change and they won't know how to cope or manage their place in it. They fear encountering people with different views and faces. They need to learn to accept that as an individual they will never be able to control others. They need to learn to accept other people.

You never know, they might even find friends and allies amongst them! Grin

That's what the brown shirts said to the Naziphobes and the Bolsheviks to the sons of Mother Russia.

How interesting. You able to supply any quotes that make those claims Soren or are you just spewing your usual attempt to justify your religious persecution of the majority of Muslims who are peaceful and lawful?

Quote:

Uncanny.

Extraordinarily but what else have we come to expect from you for trying to justify the unjustifiable?

When are you opening your concentration camps? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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double plus good Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5693 Gender:	Re: Do we even realise? Reply #11 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:10am Talking about prejudice try marrying a Muslim woman if you belong to another faith? Try shaking a Muslim womans hand?
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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Do we even realise? Reply #12 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:25am double plus good wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:10am: Talking about prejudice try marrying a Muslim woman if you belong to another faith? Try shaking a Muslim womans hand? Have you? I don't find it amazing that anybody would refuse your proposals!
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double plus good

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #13 - Aug 12^th, 2015 at 4:42pm

|dev|null wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:25am:

double plus good wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:10am:

Talking about prejudice try marrying a Muslim woman if you belong to another faith? Try shaking a Muslim womans hand?

Have you? I don't find it amazing that anybody would refuse your proposals! Grin

Islam refuses my proposals because I'm a christian male. It doesn't apply to Muslim males though. They can marry anybody they like.

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|dev|null

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Re: Do we even realise?
Reply #14 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 12:43pm

double plus good wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 4:42pm:

|dev|null wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:25am:

double plus good wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 10:10am:

Talking about prejudice try marrying a Muslim woman if you belong to another faith? Try shaking a Muslim womans hand?

Have you? I don't find it amazing that anybody would refuse your proposals! Grin

Islam refuses my proposals because I'm a christian male. It doesn't apply to Muslim males though. They can marry anybody they like.

Rather like the Orthodox Jews in that regard, right? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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