Australian Politics Forum - Can you support atrocities and human rights?

Yadda

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #75 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 12:37am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 4:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

I largely care nothing for people who claim Islam is a religion of peace in the face of such undeniable atrocities. Ultimately, words are meaningless in the face of actions. Would you not agree?

And what about muslims who do act?

Because I can promise you there are a lot of peace-loving muslims who do act on their convictions.

Yeah maria! Tongue

Here [details below] are Aussie moslems who can be seen marching down Main Street, Australia, everyday, PURPORTEDLY, demonstrating their solidarity, with Australian values.

But look closely [at the details of example, and the IMAGES, below], and those Aussie moslems are ACTUALLY marching down Main Street, Australia, in solidarity with the values of murderous ISLAMISTS, aka the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt [one of whose tenets is to legalise Female Genital Mutilation in Egypt, on religious grounds].

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1412304156/2#2
Quote:

Hijabed women

proudly waving an Australian flag
http://cache.newzulu.com.au/en/photos/local/2014-01-25/4925/sydney-s-egyptian-co...
A crowd of moslems in Sydney, advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt;
What is scandalous, is that moslems should hold up an Australian flag, as though to suggest that Australia and Australians would ever support the political aspirations of ISLAMISTS in Egypt - the Muslim Brotherhood political group.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1390857768/30#30
Quote:

Children in Sydney, advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt;
In Egypt, these two young girls would be screaming a new song, a different song, if they were being held down, naked below the waist, with their legs held apart, and female genital mutilation was being performed upon them.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #76 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 1:46pm

gandalf wrote Reply #56 - Yesterday at 3:46pm:
Quote:

It is not about an "across the board answer" - again you are looking at it from your own point of view. The whole point here is to not look at it from your point of view. Its not even about agreeing with or even understanding someone elses point of view - but to accept that someone can be sincere and fundamentally 'moral' despite holding views you cannot understand and find repugnant.

Example: my personal view is that Hiroshima was a callous and outrageous act of mass murder that should be classified as a war crime. BUT if someone comes up to me and says "I think it was morally justified, and I also stand up for western liberal values..." - I'm not going to say they are a liar or hypocrite. Rather I will accept their word that they are genuinely sincere about this position of theirs.

I direct this particularly at you moses, because time and time again you have singularly refused to accept that such sincerity can exist - instead taking it as an indisputable fact that anyone who ascribes to the Islamic faith must necessarily also be opposed to peace and western liberal values

I still say that any muslim who accepts the commands of allah, the teachings of muhammad, the verses in the qur'an (which unequivocally urge islamic atrocities), as infallible, perfect and never to be changed, support the terrorism and depravities engendered.

The only way to stop the world wide homicidal muslim insanity, is to clean up the doctrine.

Get rid of allah's and muhammad's blood lust gandalf, before the world gets totally sick of islam and cleans up your cult for you.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #77 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:16pm

The 'moderates' keep referring to the abrogated parts of the Koran while hoping their audience knows nothing about what those peaceful earlier writings were replaced with.

They've fooled Maria big time. She thought there's nothing in the Koran that justifies a lot of what ISIS has been doing.

Watch this short video of a very brave Muslim Egyptian berating the Muslim clerics for not owning up to the fact that most of what ISIS has been doing can be justified by passages in the Koran.

link

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #78 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:38pm

mariacostel wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 6:03pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 4:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

I largely care nothing for people who claim Islam is a religion of peace in the face of such undeniable atrocities. Ultimately, words are meaningless in the face of actions. Would you not agree?

And what about muslims who do act?

Because I can promise you there are a lot of peace-loving muslims who do act on their convictions.

Yadda calls it taqqiya.

And they do what exactly? Hold protest marches opposing ISIS and Islamic terrorism? Yes, they make a few nice statements and while that is appreciated, every terrorist murder erases it entirely. And it has taken a real long time for any of them to offer up a rather watered-down apology.

It is very very little. Better than nothing, but not much.

Are protests the be-all and end-all in expressing your opposition to extremism? I'm not really sure what that would achieve.

No, I was thinking more practical and useful things like engaging with your community - de-radicalisation programs, school engagements, youth events, community events, peace BBQs etc etc. This stuff is happening every day, and its muslims who are taking the initiative. You don't hear about them because lets face it, if it doesn't bleed it doesn't lead. But it is happening I guarantee it - devout peaceful muslims putting their beliefs into action to create a better world.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights? Reply #79 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:45pm freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 9:27pm: Would these be the "wishy washy western liberal morals" you think we are using to attack Islam? No - not those fake ones you use. I mean the real ones - before they were corrupted by cynical imperialists and their useless idiots.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #80 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:59pm

mariacostel wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 7:59pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 7:56pm:

As a Sydney professor recently said ~ It's not easy for so-called 'Moderate' Muslims to condemn ISIS given the fact that a great deal of what they stand for is right there in the same 'holy book' from which the 'Moderates' take their own religious authority.

That's a convenient and totally inaccurate claim. The Koran does not support the rape and murder of women and especially children. Even when it supports killing it does not support butchery and barbarity.

You're new here, Maria, but we call this spineless apologetics. You're not allowed to say this. It goes against our Freeeeedom.

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Karnal

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #81 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 3:04pm

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

What are some of these 'faux threats' I wax about?

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

You might be right about murder, but it is kind of hard to have sex slavery and wife beating without rape, no matter how you dress it up. Under Shariah law, where sex is permitted, there is no punishment for rape, and where sex is not permitted, the punishment for rape and consensual sex is almost identical.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #82 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 6:32pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:59pm:

You're new here, Maria, but we call this spineless apologetics.

Precisely.

Please desist in future, Mary.

Not just a newcomer, but a younger generation newcomer whose naivety on the subject of Islam, Muslims, terrorism etc is alarmingly bereft of anything other than politically correct platitudes and apologist mantras learnt from our socialist media.

PS. Why 'younger generationer'?

My older generation would never commit the sin of writing the sentence ...

'And it has taken a real long time for any of them to offer up a rather watered-down apology.'

Do you have any idea how that horribly incorrect piece of grammar 'real' grates on the nerves of people of my generation, Mary?

I had to run for the smelling salts in the medicine cabinet in the bathroom, but didn't quite make it, and so found myself heaving noisily into the toilet bowl.

Please rewrite that sentence correctly before doing anything else here, Mary.

Thank you.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #83 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 6:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

No, I was thinking more practical and useful things like engaging with your community - de-radicalisation programs, school engagements, youth events, community events, peace BBQs etc etc. This stuff is happening every day, and its muslims who are taking the initiative.

Dear Jesus.

It's just a glaring demonstration of how it is that Muslims should never have been considered for immigration to Australia.

Here's gandalf actually boasting about how one 'heroic' section of the Muslim community is engaged in frantic activity to persuade their Australian born youths not to commit mass-murder and beheadings upon the Australian public.

And he can't see the horrible irony of him boasting about this.

Dear Jesus indeed.

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Soren

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #84 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 6:53pm

mariacostel wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 6:03pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 4:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

I largely care nothing for people who claim Islam is a religion of peace in the face of such undeniable atrocities. Ultimately, words are meaningless in the face of actions. Would you not agree?

And what about muslims who do act?

Because I can promise you there are a lot of peace-loving muslims who do act on their convictions.

Yadda calls it taqqiya.

And they do what exactly? Hold protest marches opposing ISIS and Islamic terrorism?

No, that's the lazy Lefty idea of effective action - a noisy demo and then back to welfare or smug middle class comforts.

Muslims should be seen to be actively eliminating terrorists and terrorist sympathisers in their midst. They should not just talk but act effectively. After all, they say it has nuffin' to do wiv Islam - so they should be seen to be effectively safeguarding Islam against such people. They know who the ISIS sympathisers are better than anyone.

You would not accept Catholic communities sheltering murderers of Protestants because Protestant murdering motivated by Catholicism is not a Catholic issue but a societal problem that Muslims, atheists, Buddhists and Hindus should equally take responsibility for.

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freediver

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #85 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 7:29pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

Would these be the "wishy washy western liberal morals" you think we are using to attack Islam?

No - not those fake ones you use. I mean the real ones - before they were corrupted by cynical imperialists and their useless idiots.

Fake wishy washy western liberal morals? Can you be more specific Gandalf? Is this like the "faux threats" I wax?

Do you claim to be a standard bearer for modern liberal values?

Quote:

FD's post in this thread mocking the idea that the US could possibly have any designs on Iraq that wasn't related to flowering Iraq with their gifts of freedom and democracy.

Are you conceding you made this up Gandalf? What was I "dressing up as spreading freedom and democracy"?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #86 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 7:39pm

freediver wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

Are you conceding you made this up Gandalf? What was I "dressing up as spreading freedom and democracy"?

No FD - I have no doubt whatsoever that you would listen to the argument that the US had no intention of establishing genuine democracy in Iraq with a completely open mind Tongue

/tongue-in-cheek

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #87 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 7:44pm

Soren wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 6:53pm:

No, that's the lazy Lefty idea of effective action - a noisy demo and then back to welfare or smug middle class comforts.

Soren - who previously measured the level of sincerity of muslims to combat terrorism by the number of street protests against terrorism.

Soren wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 6:53pm:

Muslims should be seen to be actively eliminating terrorists and terrorist sympathisers in their midst. They should not just talk but act effectively.

Like what Soren? Violence? So we're no different to ISIS?

Or do you mean community engagement - like I just mentioned?

You're vague words are just weasel words S.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #88 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 8:30pm

freediver wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 2:45pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2015 at 9:27pm:

Would these be the "wishy washy western liberal morals" you think we are using to attack Islam?

No - not those fake ones you use. I mean the real ones - before they were corrupted by cynical imperialists and their useless idiots.

Fake wishy washy western liberal morals? Can you be more specific Gandalf? Is this like the "faux threats" I wax?

Do you claim to be a standard bearer for modern liberal values?

Do you?

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freediver

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Re: Can you support atrocities and human rights?
Reply #89 - Aug 18^th, 2015 at 9:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 7:39pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 18^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

Are you conceding you made this up Gandalf? What was I "dressing up as spreading freedom and democracy"?

No FD - I have no doubt whatsoever that you would listen to the argument that the US had no intention of establishing genuine democracy in Iraq with a completely open mind Tongue

/tongue-in-cheek

Can you quote the post where I "mocked the idea that the US could possibly have any designs on Iraq that wasn't related to flowering Iraq with their gifts of freedom and democracy"?

Can you be more specific on these fake wishy washy western liberal morals? Is this like the "faux threats" I wax? Do you claim to be a standard bearer for modern liberal values?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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