Australian Politics Forum - New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen

Brian Ross

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #15 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:48pm

easel wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:43pm:

easel wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 4:23pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 4:20pm:

easel wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2015 at 10:19pm:

Not going to achieve that engagement range very effectively with a 14in barrel length.

you can do it these days with faster burning/faster expanding powders. The powder burns so fast the energy out of a 14inch barrel is that of a 20inch barrel.

The breech and barrel have to be tougher than normal though to prevent the breech blowing up or the barrel warping from the higher pressures.

Then they won't be using the Australian manufactured ss109 ammunition we currently use in our weapons as it loses way too much muzzle velocity in the shorter barrels.

Well they are a dinky little army anyway, they could just buy a couple of packets of 223 at the local gun shop.

Australian stuff isn't really SS109.

Australian rifles are not compatible with foreign ammunition that is SS109. Australian rifles cannot be supplied by foreign supply chains. If operating with other militaries using 5.56 ammunition, Australia cannot use their rounds if running short. Everyone else can share the NATO round. And now so can New Zealand.

It looks identical but it isn't.

Australian ammunition is STANAG compliant 5.56x45mm SS109 ammunition. Not sure where you're getting your info from except out of your bum, Easel. Roll Eyes

It's incompatible with standard NATO ammunition.

Evidence.

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easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #16 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:41pm:

easel wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2015 at 10:19pm:

Not going to achieve that engagement range very effectively with a 14in barrel length.

you can do it these days with faster burning/faster expanding powders. The powder burns so fast the energy out of a 14inch barrel is that of a 20inch barrel.

The breech and barrel have to be tougher than normal though to prevent the breech blowing up or the barrel warping from the higher pressures.

So, you're suggesting that the New Zealand Army is not going to utilise STANAG ammunition? Roll Eyes

Good point. I never thought of that.

But there is also not 1 type of ammunition available.

Eg, if you are using a suppressed weapon subsonic ammunition is available.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #17 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:53pm The F88 is not a Steyr AUG. Internally it is different. Externally there are differences too. Things such as fire selectors and safety locations. And it will not fire standard NATO ammunition.
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Brian Ross

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #18 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:21pm

easel wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:41pm:

easel wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2015 at 10:19pm:

Not going to achieve that engagement range very effectively with a 14in barrel length.

you can do it these days with faster burning/faster expanding powders. The powder burns so fast the energy out of a 14inch barrel is that of a 20inch barrel.

The breech and barrel have to be tougher than normal though to prevent the breech blowing up or the barrel warping from the higher pressures.

So, you're suggesting that the New Zealand Army is not going to utilise STANAG ammunition? Roll Eyes

Good point. I never thought of that.

Funny that. Roll Eyes

Quote:

But there is also not 1 type of ammunition available.

There are many types. However the STANAG on SS109 ammunition only describes one type.

Quote:

Eg, if you are using a suppressed weapon subsonic ammunition is available.

And you won't reach 500 metres with it, either. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Moderator Offline Representative of me Posts: 42347	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #19 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:22pm easel wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:53pm: The F88 is not a Steyr AUG. Internally it is different. Externally there are differences too. Things such as fire selectors and safety locations. And it will not fire standard NATO ammunition. Bullshit.
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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #20 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round
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easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #21 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:27pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round

Different gas system.

Will not feed standard NATO rounds.

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easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #22 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:37pm

And the selector for full automatic fire is different on the Australian version.

Majorly different.

And on that note I will end the discussion because people are pretending to know more than me. And I know hardly anything. Therefore they know less than nothing and discussing with them is pointless as they want to appear informed for some odd reason.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #23 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 3:21pm Who are these weirdos? The F88 does not have a bolt release and you have to work the bolt by hand. End of discussion. Will not work with allied ammunition. Does not have the same gas system.
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BigOl64

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #24 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 4:33pm

easel wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:27pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round

Different gas system.

Will not feed standard NATO rounds.

Wait what?

The steyr uses a the nato standard 5.56 ss109 ammo, the gas system has nothing to do with the breech. As in the breech holds the round, the gas system forced the bolt and expended round rearward.

We use this ammo in the F88 steyr and F89 Minimi and the M4 all of which use the 5.56 x 45 nato round.

So I have no idea what the hell you are talking about, and I doubt you do to.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #25 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 5:36pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round

The Americans buy our ADI SS109 for plinking with their Ar15's, it's cheap and considered pretty good, they like how it's not as sensitive to temperature variations like other ammo.

Australian Outback is their civilian line of ammo with hunting projectiles

ADI had their defence contract renewed without being put to tender,they employ around 6500 people so no real competition if you think about it.

As for NZ do we really know which model they have chosen, I reckon the cqbps16 looks like a nice gas piston ar,that's the one I would choose.

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Brian Ross

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #26 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 7:50pm

easel wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:37pm:

And the selector for full automatic fire is different on the Australian version.

Majorly different.

And on that note I will end the discussion because people are pretending to know more than me. And I know hardly anything. Therefore they know less than nothing and discussing with them is pointless as they want to appear informed for some odd reason.

Have you ever even seen an F88, let alone fired one? I suspect not. It is obvious you know SFA about small arms.

Externally, there are minor differences between the F88 and the Steyr AUG.

Lets see if you can ID which is which, shall we?

So, which is why, Easel?

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easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #27 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 2:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 7:50pm:

easel wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:37pm:

And the selector for full automatic fire is different on the Australian version.

Majorly different.

And on that note I will end the discussion because people are pretending to know more than me. And I know hardly anything. Therefore they know less than nothing and discussing with them is pointless as they want to appear informed for some odd reason.

Have you ever even seen an F88, let alone fired one? I suspect not. It is obvious you know SFA about small arms.

Externally, there are minor differences between the F88 and the Steyr AUG.

Lets see if you can ID which is which, shall we?

http://www.specops.pl/vortal/technika/bron_strzelecka/Steyr_Mannlicher_AUG/F88%2...

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/zombie/images/d/d0/Steyr_aug.jpg

So, which is why, Easel?

F88 does not have a bolt release. The top one does not have a bolt release. If the bottom one does not have one on the opposite side, then it is also a F88.

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easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #28 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 2:48pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 5:36pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round

The Americans buy our ADI SS109 for plinking with their Ar15's, it's cheap and considered pretty good, they like how it's not as sensitive to temperature variations like other ammo.

Australian Outback is their civilian line of ammo with hunting projectiles

ADI had their defence contract renewed without being put to tender,they employ around 6500 people so no real competition if you think about it.

As for NZ do we really know which model they have chosen, I reckon the cqbps16 looks like a nice gas piston ar,that's the one I would choose.

The F88 ammuntion looks identical to the standard NATO round. The dimensions are the same.

The gas system in the F88 will not handle standard NATO ammunition. The Steyr AUG will.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #29 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 3:37pm

easel wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 2:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 5:36pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round

The Americans buy our ADI SS109 for plinking with their Ar15's, it's cheap and considered pretty good, they like how it's not as sensitive to temperature variations like other ammo.

Australian Outback is their civilian line of ammo with hunting projectiles

ADI had their defence contract renewed without being put to tender,they employ around 6500 people so no real competition if you think about it.

As for NZ do we really know which model they have chosen, I reckon the cqbps16 looks like a nice gas piston ar,that's the one I would choose.

The F88 ammuntion looks identical to the standard NATO round. The dimensions are the same.

The gas system in the F88 will not handle standard NATO ammunition. The Steyr AUG will.

How does the gas system differ?

If it can't handle Nato ammo it can't handle any 5.56/223 ammo.

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