Australian Politics Forum - New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen

easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #30 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 3:46pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 3:37pm:

easel wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 2:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 5:36pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round

The Americans buy our ADI SS109 for plinking with their Ar15's, it's cheap and considered pretty good, they like how it's not as sensitive to temperature variations like other ammo.

Australian Outback is their civilian line of ammo with hunting projectiles

ADI had their defence contract renewed without being put to tender,they employ around 6500 people so no real competition if you think about it.

As for NZ do we really know which model they have chosen, I reckon the cqbps16 looks like a nice gas piston ar,that's the one I would choose.

The F88 ammuntion looks identical to the standard NATO round. The dimensions are the same.

The gas system in the F88 will not handle standard NATO ammunition. The Steyr AUG will.

How does the gas system differ?

If it can't handle Nato ammo it can't handle any 5.56/223 ammo.

The gas system is different to the point if the pressures that occur during firing of standard NATO ammuntion is used, there are problems such as misfeeds and jams.

That is why Australian made ammunition must be used. The powders and pressures are different.

The round is identical in appearance. The powders are not the same and the rifle is not backwards compatible with allied ammunition.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #31 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 3:47pm I don't know if this is the same with the new production F88 that looks nothing like the green plastic rifle.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #32 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 4:03pm

easel wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 3:46pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 3:37pm:

easel wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 2:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 5:36pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:47pm:

F88 Austeyr: The Australian Army's modified version of the Steyr AUG A1. Changes for the Australian version include a bayonet lug, a 1:7 in rifling pitch as found in the M16A2 rifle, optimised for the heavier 62-grain NATO-standard SS109/M855 round

The Americans buy our ADI SS109 for plinking with their Ar15's, it's cheap and considered pretty good, they like how it's not as sensitive to temperature variations like other ammo.

Australian Outback is their civilian line of ammo with hunting projectiles

ADI had their defence contract renewed without being put to tender,they employ around 6500 people so no real competition if you think about it.

As for NZ do we really know which model they have chosen, I reckon the cqbps16 looks like a nice gas piston ar,that's the one I would choose.

The F88 ammuntion looks identical to the standard NATO round. The dimensions are the same.

The gas system in the F88 will not handle standard NATO ammunition. The Steyr AUG will.

How does the gas system differ?

If it can't handle Nato ammo it can't handle any 5.56/223 ammo.

The gas system is different to the point if the pressures that occur during firing of standard NATO ammuntion is used, there are problems such as misfeeds and jams.

That is why Australian made ammunition must be used. The powders and pressures are different.

How does the gas system differ?

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #33 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 4:06pm Sizing and other things such as pressure required.
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Brian Ross

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #34 - Aug 31^st, 2015 at 8:58pm

easel wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Sizing and other things such as pressure required.

Really? And how is this "pressure required" generated?

Australia manufactures three types of SS109 Ammunition. Do you know what they are designated and what the differences between them are? This is afterall, publicly available information, so you don't have to worry about contravening the Official Secrets Act. Roll Eyes

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easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #35 - Sep 2^nd, 2015 at 3:25am

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 8:58pm:

easel wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Sizing and other things such as pressure required.

Really? And how is this "pressure required" generated?

Australia manufactures three types of SS109 Ammunition. Do you know what they are designated and what the differences between them are? This is afterall, publicly available information, so you don't have to worry about contravening the Official Secrets Act. Roll Eyes

If you think the F88 can fire standard NATO munitions, then this is not public information and I decline to entertain the topic any further.

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BigOl64

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #36 - Sep 9^th, 2015 at 10:07am

easel wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2015 at 3:25am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 8:58pm:

easel wrote on Aug 31^st, 2015 at 4:06pm:

Sizing and other things such as pressure required.

Really? And how is this "pressure required" generated?

Australia manufactures three types of SS109 Ammunition. Do you know what they are designated and what the differences between them are? This is afterall, publicly available information, so you don't have to worry about contravening the Official Secrets Act. Roll Eyes

If you think the F88 can fire standard NATO munitions, then this is not public information and I decline to entertain the topic any further.

And how does the F89 and M4 fire both NATO and these 'special' substandard rounds with out any loss of performance and the F88 does not?

There must be a marked difference which the F88 cannot possibly use the nato standard round and the F89 and M4 both rattle away just fine.

I have spent many years during my 'time in' dealing with all sorts of weapons related issues and I have never heard of anything like this and neither have any of my mates who are still in service.

So feel free to provide some details.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #37 - Sep 9^th, 2015 at 4:56pm Gas system.
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easel

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #38 - Sep 9^th, 2015 at 5:08pm

Quote:

Army spends $590,000 on 5.56mm ball ammunition that does not fit their standard-issue Steyr rifles. Comment from Major Kristian Dunne, General Jerry Mataparae, Wayne Mapp, and David Tipple.

http://natlib.govt.nz/records/31312660?search%5Bi%5D%5Bsubject%5D=Ammunition&sea...

I can't be sure if this is about the gas system or the weight of the NATO bullets not being compatible in the standard AU-NZ Steyr barrel due to the twist rate. The barrel is very fast to change.

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BigOl64

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #39 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:57am

easel wrote on Sep 9^th, 2015 at 4:56pm:

Gas system.

Hmmm you either

a) don't understand the meaning of details
b) are utterly clueless of the F88, F89 & M4 technical capabilities and deficiencies
c) are a major dullard who just got caught out trying to bullsh1t people who know what they are talking about.

Im thinking c) Grin

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #40 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 3:01pm
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Baronvonrort

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #41 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 3:15pm

easel wrote on Sep 9^th, 2015 at 5:08pm:

I can't be sure if this is about the gas system or the weight of the NATO bullets not being compatible in the standard AU-NZ Steyr barrel due to the twist rate.

The twist rate of the rifling only affects projectile stability and accuracy, it makes no difference to whether the gun can fire the round.

Heavier projectiles require a faster twist rate for projectile stability.

You are clueless about this topic.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #42 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 3:22pm The rest of your existence on this planet is going to be destroyed. Even if you manage to flee to North Korea, we can destroy you there.
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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen Reply #43 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 3:23pm Your life is ruined.
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BigOl64

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Re: New Zealand selects LMT rifle for Steyr replacemen
Reply #44 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 3:36pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 3:15pm:

easel wrote on Sep 9^th, 2015 at 5:08pm:

I can't be sure if this is about the gas system or the weight of the NATO bullets not being compatible in the standard AU-NZ Steyr barrel due to the twist rate.

The twist rate of the rifling only affects projectile stability and accuracy, it makes no difference to whether the gun can fire the round.

Heavier projectiles require a faster twist rate for projectile stability.

You are clueless about this topic.

Watch out, while easel knows less than frig all about small arms, he does conjure up a good threat about spies an stuff. Grin

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