Australian Politics Forum - R.I.P.little one.

Lionel Edriess

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1932
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #30 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:49pm

cods wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 6:54pm:

why are you not trying to find a solution that prevents these babies being brutalised..

Why aren't we investigating the reasons this has become a common problem in society?

This is a relatively new societal problem, yes? Then where's the studies?

Nobody wants to acknowledge that it's akin to the 'lion' type of eating the young. In actual fact, nobody knows.

If we admit to a continuing fragmentation of what was once considered 'normal' society, what do we allow and then consider 'normal'.

Once upon a time, the recreational use of a few opioids over the weekend was acceptable. Now we have an ice epidemic and we struggle with the social costs.

Have a wander through your local low-rent shopping centre and then tell me that general societal standards are not degenerating.

So, who's to blame?

Back to top

Toughen up, Australia!

IP Logged

Johnsmith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4716 Gender:	Re: R.I.P.little one. Reply #31 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 8:12pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:49pm: This is a relatively new societal problem, yes? I doubt it ... more commonly reported, sure, but I doubt it's new.
Back to top	When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look. (Malcolm Turncoat) IP Logged

Johnsmith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4716
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #32 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 8:13pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:40pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:39pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:35pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

double plus good wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:19am:

Sooner or later, we as a society have to be willing to have an adult discussion about bringing back the death penalty.

On that I agree ... I think they should leave the dad in a locked room to deal with him as he see's fit

whatever happens in that room stays in that room. If the dad decides to forgive him, so be it, if the dad skins him alive and then shoves it down his throat, so be it. If it were my kids, I know what I would do.

I agree.

to many times these dickheads get off way to easy ... he'll get a sentence of 7 or 8 yrs, serve 5 with good behaviour and then be out to do it again ... in the meantime that little girl will never learn to dance, will never have her first kiss, will never finish school, will never marry, will never have her own kids ....

a life for a life

There's no place in civilised society for the premeditated state-sanctioned killing of prisoners.

on that we disagree.

Back to top

When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

IP Logged

Lionel Edriess

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1932
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #33 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 8:48pm

Johnsmith wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 8:12pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:49pm:

This is a relatively new societal problem, yes?

I doubt it ... more commonly reported, sure, but I doubt it's new.

Ooooh! Aware are we!

What, then, do you suggest we do about it?

Or are 'studies' and 'agendas' supposed to alleviate the problem? Is education on the agenda? Is it just an educational problem? Or is it more that that?

Or do we just live with it as a result of the dumbing-down of teenage parents and their limited prospects in the back-blocks of Western society?

Since when have we begun to excuse murder as a matter of convenience? Abortion aside.

Once you've had kids, you've gotta pay for 'em. Even the Government knows that. Cool

Back to top

Toughen up, Australia!

IP Logged

President Elect, The Mechanic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17501 Gender:	Re: R.I.P.little one. Reply #34 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 9:06pm once again peccary trying to score points off a baby's life... what a despicable piece of sheet... how is this ***T allowed to keep posting on this forum.. FD... rid the forum of this despicable piece of dog turd...
Back to top	Q The STORM has arrived Every Dog Has Its Day... Dark to Light. Sheep no more. IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35587
Gender: female

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #35 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 10:05pm

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 9:06pm:

once again peccary trying to score points off a baby's life...

what a despicable piece of sheet...

how is this ***T allowed to keep posting on this forum..

FD... rid the forum of this despicable piece of dog turd... Angry

Why is what Greg is saying any more about 'scoring points' than all the people trying to make themselves feel better by describing the lengths they will go to for revenge?

In fact, one could argue that what Greg is saying is less about 'scoring points' than the chest-thumpers.

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

Johnsmith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4716
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #36 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 10:54pm

Lionel Edriess wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 8:48pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 8:12pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:49pm:

This is a relatively new societal problem, yes?

I doubt it ... more commonly reported, sure, but I doubt it's new.

Ooooh! Aware are we!

What, then, do you suggest we do about it?

Or are 'studies' and 'agendas' supposed to alleviate the problem? Is education on the agenda? Is it just an educational problem? Or is it more that that?

Or do we just live with it as a result of the dumbing-down of teenage parents and their limited prospects in the back-blocks of Western society?

Since when have we begun to excuse murder as a matter of convenience? Abortion aside.

Once you've had kids, you've gotta pay for 'em. Even the Government knows that. Cool

I've already told you what I think we should do about it

Johnsmith wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 7:34pm:

I think they should leave the dad in a locked room to deal with him as he see's fit

whatever happens in that room stays in that room. If the dad decides to forgive him, so be it, if the dad skins him alive and then shoves it down his throat, so be it. If it were my kids, I know what I would do.

What makes you think this is limited to Western Society and Who is excusing murder? And what's it got to do with paying for your kids?

You tripping tonight Lionel?

Back to top

When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

IP Logged

Amadd

Gold Member

Offline

Mo

Posts: 6217

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #37 - Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:38pm

The point is, that access to a father's child was granted to a total stranger by the legal system.
Moreover, the father was DEMANDED to work to pay for access to a total stranger whilst his own access was limited. This is a very common occurrence.

I'm not saying that there are not circumstances where the natural father should have limited access, however, it is not the natural way of life and the system must be held responsible for this child's death. There are no ifs and buts, the system is responsible for intervening in the natural way of life. Period.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 85443
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #38 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 12:50am

Amadd wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:38pm:

The point is, that access to a father's child was granted to a total stranger by the legal system.
Moreover, the father was DEMANDED to work to pay for access to a total stranger whilst his own access was limited. This is a very common occurrence.

I'm not saying that there are not circumstances where the natural father should have limited access, however, it is not the natural way of life and the system must be held responsible for this child's death. There are no ifs and buts, the system is responsible for intervening in the natural way of life. Period.

Fair point, I think. I remain appalled that so many women seem to enter into these kinds of relationships, and then ignore the signs of injury to their own children that must be plain to them.

How many times have we read of children beaten time after time and showing signs of injuries from repetitive beating, before they are finally killed?

These 'mothers' must know this is going on - nobody is that stupid..... or are they?

As for a 'man' who does these things - 30 years in general population and named and shamed to the inmate community would serve, or maybe 'never to be released'.

Personal anecdote:- There are no excuses for this kind of thing - there are studies etc around about what childhood abuse and neglect do to a person. I did one of those tests with regard to my upbringing - and out of 10 possible 'ACE's for neglect and abuse - I scored 8. At 4 out of 10 you should suffer serious long term physical issues (I do) and possibly a lot of other issues, including a predisposition to violence (I'm non-violent).

My children have never been hit or injured or neglected by a parent in their lives (I was - repeatedly - and even stabbed and nearly allowed to die of neglect at 13 - this is not a joke).

Sorry - there are no excuses like - "I had a hard life.. man."

No Excuses - EVER!

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 30^th, 2015 at 12:56am by Grappler Deep State Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35587
Gender: female

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #39 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 1:13am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 12:50am:

Amadd wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:38pm:

The point is, that access to a father's child was granted to a total stranger by the legal system.
Moreover, the father was DEMANDED to work to pay for access to a total stranger whilst his own access was limited. This is a very common occurrence.

I'm not saying that there are not circumstances where the natural father should have limited access, however, it is not the natural way of life and the system must be held responsible for this child's death. There are no ifs and buts, the system is responsible for intervening in the natural way of life. Period.

Fair point, I think. I remain appalled that so many women seem to enter into these kinds of relationships, and then ignore the signs of injury to their own children that must be plain to them.

How many times have we read of children beaten time after time and showing signs of injuries from repetitive beating, before they are finally killed?

These 'mothers' must know this is going on - nobody is that stupid..... or are they?

As for a 'man' who does these things - 30 years in general population and named and shamed to the inmate community would serve, or maybe 'never to be released'.

Personal anecdote:- There are no excuses for this kind of thing - there are studies etc around about what childhood abuse and neglect do to a person. I did one of those tests with regard to my upbringing - and out of 10 possible 'ACE's for neglect and abuse - I scored 8. At 4 out of 10 you should suffer serious long term physical issues (I do) and possibly a lot of other issues, including a predisposition to violence (I'm non-violent).

My children have never been hit or injured or neglected by a parent in their lives (I was - repeatedly - and even stabbed and nearly allowed to die of neglect at 13 - this is not a joke).

Sorry - there are no excuses like - "I had a hard life.. man."

No Excuses - EVER!

No, there are no excuses.

I read the OP, even though i hesitated for fear of being horrified beyond my imagination.

I was not horrified beyond my imagination although it's from the Tele so i doubt it hard. Quite sure there is more to the story.

According to the article the father was concerned. I feel tremendously sorry for him. How impotent a person must feel when they know there is danger but their warnings are not being heard.

And how easy is it to blame welfare ... they were dealing with the situation but signed off on it weeks before the murder.

What we need is a welfare system that is not restricted by funding cuts and short falls. There are simply not enough case managers to go around. Those that are on the pay-roll are dedicated to the few red flags they can manage. I have a friend who is responsible for an entire region. She has, at her estimate, about 60 cases on her books. She is alone in dealing with them and has to drive long distances to see any of them at all.

It's not as easy as saying there are problems here, attend.

And kids end up dead and the already overstretched workers have to live with that.

This is about funding.

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 85443
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #40 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:04am

mothra wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 1:13am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 12:50am:

Amadd wrote on Aug 29^th, 2015 at 11:38pm:

The point is, that access to a father's child was granted to a total stranger by the legal system.
Moreover, the father was DEMANDED to work to pay for access to a total stranger whilst his own access was limited. This is a very common occurrence.

I'm not saying that there are not circumstances where the natural father should have limited access, however, it is not the natural way of life and the system must be held responsible for this child's death. There are no ifs and buts, the system is responsible for intervening in the natural way of life. Period.

Fair point, I think. I remain appalled that so many women seem to enter into these kinds of relationships, and then ignore the signs of injury to their own children that must be plain to them.

How many times have we read of children beaten time after time and showing signs of injuries from repetitive beating, before they are finally killed?

These 'mothers' must know this is going on - nobody is that stupid..... or are they?

As for a 'man' who does these things - 30 years in general population and named and shamed to the inmate community would serve, or maybe 'never to be released'.

Personal anecdote:- There are no excuses for this kind of thing - there are studies etc around about what childhood abuse and neglect do to a person. I did one of those tests with regard to my upbringing - and out of 10 possible 'ACE's for neglect and abuse - I scored 8. At 4 out of 10 you should suffer serious long term physical issues (I do) and possibly a lot of other issues, including a predisposition to violence (I'm non-violent).

My children have never been hit or injured or neglected by a parent in their lives (I was - repeatedly - and even stabbed and nearly allowed to die of neglect at 13 - this is not a joke).

Sorry - there are no excuses like - "I had a hard life.. man."

No Excuses - EVER!

No, there are no excuses.

I read the OP, even though i hesitated for fear of being horrified beyond my imagination.

I was not horrified beyond my imagination although it's from the Tele so i doubt it hard. Quite sure there is more to the story.

According to the article the father was concerned. I feel tremendously sorry for him. How impotent a person must feel when they know there is danger but their warnings are not being heard.

And how easy is it to blame welfare ... they were dealing with the situation but signed off on it weeks before the murder.

What we need is a welfare system that is not restricted by funding cuts and short falls. There are simply not enough case managers to go around. Those that are on the pay-roll are dedicated to the few red flags they can manage. I have a friend who is responsible for an entire region. She has, at her estimate, about 60 cases on her books. She is alone in dealing with them and has to drive long distances to see any of them at all.

It's not as easy as saying there are problems here, attend.

And kids end up dead and the already overstretched workers have to live with that.

This is about funding.

And the case worker, working alone, is often threatened and intimidated, and can end up a nervous wreck.

There must be a better way.

ADDS:- I couldn't read the story... I turn off the news when these things come up, and wonder at the insanity of humanity. What is more precious than your own children, who you would die for?

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35587 Gender:	Re: R.I.P.little one. Reply #41 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:05am Indeed Grap. From what i've heard, burnout within 3 years is a standard.
Back to top	If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning. IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85443 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: R.I.P.little one. Reply #42 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:07am ADDS:- I couldn't read the story... I turn off the news when these things come up, and wonder at the insanity of humanity. What is more precious than your own children, who you would die for?
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35587
Gender: female

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #43 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:17am

I've read a few people through this thread couldn't read the OP for fear of being horrified. How we all turn this kind of news off before we can hear the full horror.

Yet we are so quick to blame the overstretched welfare agencies for failing to prevent the atrocities. Those who step up to the coal face day after day after day. Those who live with this horror and are more often than not powerless to do anything about it. How do you spot the most at need kids out of a case load of dozens?

It's just awful.

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 85443
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: R.I.P.little one.
Reply #44 - Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:19am

mothra wrote on Aug 30^th, 2015 at 2:17am:

I've read a few people through this thread couldn't read the OP for fear of being horrified. How we all turn this kind of news off before we can hear the full horror.

Yet we are so quick to blame the overstretched welfare agencies for failing to prevent the atrocities. Those who step up to the coal face day after day after day. Those who live with this horror and are more often than not powerless to do anything about it. How do you spot the most at need kids out of a case load of dozens?

It's just awful.

Not sure if the word is 'horrified' for me. I just don't want to go near that dark place in humanity, and it is like a dark maelstrom that drags you down. I know it too well. I'd take all those kids in if I could.

I'm old - I think I've seen the worst in humanity - enough to last me for a while anyway. I know the signs of incoming PTSD episodes, and I stay away - self preservation. I don't want to go there, and I won't wallow in it like some.

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged