Australian Politics Forum - Are parents to blame for radicalisation

polite_gandalf

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Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation
Reply #30 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:31am

freediver wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 6:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 12:28pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2015 at 6:47pm:

I don't think you've ever given a straight answer to that question Gandalf. Under what circumstances should we kill gay people?

I gave the straightest answer possible the last time you brought it up: gays should not be killed for being gay.

It is my understanding that all religions tolerate people being gay. It is the buggery they take objection to. That is, anal sex. Or in the case of Islam, doing as the people of Lot did (both the giver and the taker).

Nice dodge though, but my actual question was, under what circumstances should we kill gay people? You haven't made up your mind yet have you? That still counts as a straight answer Gandalf. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

By "for being gay" I actually meant the acts of 'buggery' as you put it.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

Feel free to keep a bookmark to this post for future reference

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation
Reply #31 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:42am

Are parents to blame for radicalisation ?

QUESTION;
Why would anyone doubt that moslems [and the local moslem community] are those who are primarily responsible, for the 'radicalisation' of all local moslems, and particularly the 'radicalisation' of their own moslem children ?

Duh.

n.b.
In actual fact; 'radicalisation' = = becoming a [devout] moslem.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Google;
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

"There is no god except for Allah alone; and Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah."

IMAGE....

"Behead those who insult ISLAM"

Islamic Protest - IN AUSTRALIA - on the streets of Sydney from Hyde Park to George Streets, September 15, 2012.

ISLAM itself, has an influence upon all adult moslems.

And adult moslems then have a commensurate influence upon all children within their own community.

It isn't rocket science. !!!!

------------- >

IMAGE....

"Behead all those who insult the Prophet"

The result of children, being under the influence of 'Aussie' moslems - Sydney, 2012

.

The influence of ISLAM's hatred [for non-moslems], in the homes of moslems;

IMAGE...

Quote:

February 18, 2008
UK jihadist taught five-year-old son: "Kuffar -- kill! Sheikh Osama bin Laden I love"

......"Who do you kill?" asked Khan.
"America kill," said the boy.
"Who else you kill?" said Khan.
"Bush I kill," said the boy.
"And who else?" demanded Khan.
"Blair kill, both people kill."
"Who else you kill?" asked Khan.
"Saddam, Saddam," said the boy.
Then the pair began chanting at each other.
Khan said: "Kuffar [non-believers]" the boy said: "Kill."
Khan said: "Mushrik [polytheists]" and the boy said: "Kill."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/02/uk-jihadist-taught-five-year-old-son-kuffar---...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/18/nkidnap218.xml

It is obvious that ISLAM [i,e, moslems] regard such indoctrination and teaching the hatred of non-moslems [the hatred towards all that is not ISLAM], in moslem children, as 'normal'.

And ISLAMIC doctrines [and 'religious' texts] teach moslems, that infidels are not [actual] human beings [in the eyes of Allah] - because the infidels are not moslems!

"Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve."
Koran 8.55

Google;

vilest of creatures, koran

.

MORE.....

IMAGE....

"Whoever insults a Prophet, KILL HIM!"

Moslems resident in the UK, teaching their children, the 'true path'.

.

AND.....

THIS YT.....

#ISIS child trained to behead Teddy bear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeTeqbUobp0

Yeah, but that is obviously a filthy stinking infidel Teddy bear.

So it deserves to,

DIE TEDDY, DIE

!

.

ISLAM itself, has an influence upon all adult moslems.

And adult moslems then have a commensurate influence upon all children within their own community.

It isn't rocket science. !!!!

------------- >

AND here in Australia too,

.....many moslem children are going to grow up, into devout adult 'Aussie' moslems.

Adult 'Aussie' moslems, who BELIEVE, that slitting the throat of a filthy infidel is "as meaningless as two goats butting heads"
.....

--------- >

Quote:

" "You're never too young to be a soldier of Kalifah."

...and [these moslem children] promise to die fighting to end Democracy in Australia"

Watch a group of moslem children, being coached by moslem adults, to hate Australia, and Australians,
......HERE, WITHIN AUSTRALIA. !!!!

And of course this cultural coaching of moslem children is all happening behind closed doors, and out of the public eye.

------------- >

Muslims brainwash children in Australia

-------- > goto 43 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

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« Last Edit: Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:49am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation
Reply #32 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 6:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:31am:

freediver wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 6:24pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 12:28pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2015 at 6:47pm:

I don't think you've ever given a straight answer to that question Gandalf. Under what circumstances should we kill gay people?

I gave the straightest answer possible the last time you brought it up: gays should not be killed for being gay.

It is my understanding that all religions tolerate people being gay. It is the buggery they take objection to. That is, anal sex. Or in the case of Islam, doing as the people of Lot did (both the giver and the taker).

Nice dodge though, but my actual question was, under what circumstances should we kill gay people? You haven't made up your mind yet have you? That still counts as a straight answer Gandalf. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

By "for being gay" I actually meant the acts of 'buggery' as you put it.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

Feel free to keep a bookmark to this post for future reference

You said that Muhammed's command to execute both the giver and the taker was an obvious reference to homosexuality, but then went on to say that the reference to Lot implied all sorts of caveats. Since then whenever I ask what a suitable reason for executing gays might be, you only ever cite reasons that you consider to be insufficient, saying as little as possible by way of clarification.

This is hardly straight, don't you think? Should we only execute gays that are uninviting to us?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation
Reply #33 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 6:59pm

freediver wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 6:24pm:

You said that Muhammed's command to execute both the giver and the taker was an obvious reference to homosexuality, but then went on to say that the reference to Lot implied all sorts of caveats.

Firstly I didn't say anything of the kind - and certainly nothing about "caveats" - read it again. On second thoughts don't bother - you'll probably turn it into another "quote" of me calling for suicide bombing the mardi gras or something
Secondly, of course its significant that he said "as Lot's people did" instead of simply saying "men buggering each other" or "committing homosexual acts" - given that the Quranic reference to Lot's punishment was not for mere homosexual acts.
Thirdly, I have made clear my scepticism of the ahadith - oral chinese whispers, mostly for propaganda value, only recorded 200 years after the events allegedly happened.

And fourthly, and I want to be absolutely clear here - I don't believe there are *ANY* circumstances in which gays should be executed either for being who they are, or committing any consensual gay acts.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation
Reply #34 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:24pm

freediver wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:56pm:

Quote:

One would imagine that if it was a specific order against sodomy itself, The Prophet would have said something like "If you find anyone committing sodomy..." rather than the slightly more cryptic "if you find anyone doing as Lot's people did..."

...kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.

Roll Eyes

Quote:

What we do know is that the sins of Lot's people was not sodomy per se - but the whole gamut of base, criminal behaviour that come with a complete moral breakdown - robbery, rape, murder etc, of which sodomy in that context came to symbolise.

How do we know that?

Quote:

By the description, Muhammad is clearly talking about an act of sodomy, but is it necessarily any act of sodomy?

What distinction are you trying to make here Gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:40pm:

FD he's obviously talking about sodomy.

But the argument has been made (not by me) that he is only talking about sodomy that is borne out of lust and debauchery - not from genuine love and commitment.

You've got to admit there is a legitimate question about why he refers to it as "anyone doing as Lot's people did" as opposed to simply saying "anyone who commits sodomy"

Also, the quranic verses referring to Lot's people only refers to sodomy in the context of lust, no mention of sodomy in the context of genuine love and devotion.

Nothing of the sort eh?

Did Muhammed make any direct references to anal sex?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #35 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:04pm freediver wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 9:24pm: Nothing of the sort eh? Correct.
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freediver

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Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation
Reply #36 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:08pm

So I am just imagining that you concede it is an obvious reference to homosexuality then try to read all sorts of caveats into the fact that "the giver and the taker" is not a sufficiently direct reference to anal sex?

Did Muhammed make any direct references to anal sex?

What is the answer to this "legitimate question" you raise? Are you still confused about why someone like Muhammed might make an oblique reference to sodomy?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #37 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:17pm I'm not sure what non-point you are trying to make now FD. Are we happy now that I don't believe gays should be killed - mardi-gras style or otherwise?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49212 At my desk.	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #38 - Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 10:23pm What if they have anal sex in the context of lust rather than genuine love and devotion (like the aging Muhammed with his neighbour's 6 year old daughter)?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #39 - Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 7:24am Was I not quite clear on the whole gays shouldn't be killed ever thing?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49212 At my desk.	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #40 - Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 7:52am Do you think it is a reference to killing rapists and their victims?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #41 - Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 8:05am I don't know and I don't care. All you need to worry about is that gandalf does not think gays should be killed - ever. Thats what you were trolling me about - remember?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49212 At my desk.	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #42 - Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 8:50am Have you changed your mind about this verse?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation
Reply #43 - Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 10:16am

freediver wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 8:50am:

Have you changed your mind about this verse?

You are confused FD - there is a hadith and a verse. Decide which one you are talking about.

In the verse God destroyed the people as is His perogative. The hadith I don't give a damn of worth to - since as I said, is a chinese whisper passed down orally for 200 years. I was happy to speculate on it for purely the sake of argument, but I don't think for a moment it obligates any duty on muslims today.

So in short, there is no justification for men to kill gays - ever.

~ The world according to gandalf.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49212 At my desk.	Re: Are parents to blame for radicalisation Reply #44 - Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 10:26am Quote: but I don't think for a moment it obligates any duty on muslims today Are you suggesting some kind of use-by date?
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