freediver wrote on Oct 4^th, 2015 at 2:10pm:


No, for ordinary, everyday, middle-of-the-road, Muslims, FD.  You're not stupid (like Yadda/Moses/etc) nor foolish (like Soren).  You have demonstrated in the past that you have a brain and can be empathetic.  Why have you stopped?  What was your epiphany moment that closed your mind and made you turn your back on people who deserve understanding and sympathy?   

freediver wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 2:19pm:


You mean a specific command to kill gays doesn't sound very specific to you FD?

Interesting.

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 4^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:


OK then, let's ask Gandalf. Are you suggesting some kind of use-by date on this command?

freediver wrote on Oct 4^th, 2015 at 3:54pm:


Of course - it expired the minute some schmuck invented it as far as I'm concerned. But thats just me.

Now getting back to what you said, even if some muslims believe the hadith to be authentic, why can't they apply your 2008 logic that nothing should be set in stone? Its like you have some perverted desire to make sure muslims are "locked in" to 7th century society, and any muslims who want to revise Islamic law for the modern world (you know, exactly what you were calling on in 2008), must be ridiculed, mocked, and have it explained to them that Islam's barbaric laws must be for all times and places. Because as we can see, the people who are most determined to keep Islam in the 7th century, are the holier-than-thou critics who rail against Islam's barbarity.

freediver wrote on Oct 4^th, 2015 at 7:49pm:


Nicely dodged fd

What am I dodging Gandalf? Do I encourage you to discard Islam at the same time as insisting you embrace it in its entirety?

freediver wrote on Oct 4^th, 2015 at 9:37pm:


You seem to be insisting that Islam is unable to change a specific command to kill gays for being gay. Instead your line is - feel free to abandon it all or abandon nothing. ie directly contradicting what you wrote in 2008.

Is blame actually all that helpful? I mean honestly, have a look at the low brow standard of debate about managing radicalisation, terrorism and other anti social behaviours (including but not limited to) relationship violence, coward punches etc etc etc....

We invest far too much energy in looking to blame individuals (whether that be parents, whole of family, religious belief, institutions etc etc etc) rather than seek genuine and sustainable solutions.

I think it is very symptomatic of an idea I had sometime back, our species is only in its adolescence, hence we don't take responsibility - we look for blame, we do not manage risks but act on impulse and we cause untold hurt and damage.... On the upside, being in our adolescents, there is hope we can mature as a species, some of our "risk taking" pays off with positive dividends (the downside is we still don't manage all the risks) and we invest energy of ourselves into "stuff"...

Are parents to blame, from my perspective, clearly not, or rather not entirely.

This seems to me at least, to be a whole of society problem, yet, we invest our time and energy into exploiting differences in order to gain some non existent higher moral ground in order to crush those we "blame" into submission...

How is that working out so far?