Australian Politics Forum - the meaning of freedom

Soren

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #345 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 9:11am:

Soren wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 9:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:00pm:

whereas S pretty much argues the opposite (minus the biological aspect). S clearly articulates the view that muslims "should know better", and should be attacked because of their choice of belief/culture - rooted in the premise that they are redeemable. Moses on the other hand clearly takes the "doomed a-priori" view - because they are inately degenerate, because of genetics.

Very good - if you believe in Islam you ARE responsible for that belief. You have taken on the responsibility for Islam. You are not a passive fVcken VICTIM of it but its conscious, free and considered adherent and follower. It's evil deeds are YOUR responsibility.

There must be thousands of conscientious objectors to Islam, people in possession of a normal moral compass, who are ABANDONING Islam in the wake of every new atrocity in the name of Islam.
You either take responsibility for the way Islam is or you abandon Islam. You cannot say "I am a Muslim but I have nuffin' to do wiv the way Islam is."

Go ahead, say it, say that you are a Muslim but you have nuffin' to do wiv the way Islam is. Go on, Gandy, say it.

Soren, I have nuffin' to do wiv the way some muslims behave that are contrary to my own beliefs on Islam.

If I was materially supporting or advancing their cause - or even giving moral support, even tacitly, then you could level the accusation at me with some plausibility.

You, on the other hand give tacit support to anti-Islam violence - by continually refusing to say anything against it. I've been giving you the opportunity these last few weeks, but not a peep. Just deflection deflection deflection. You, therefore, by your own standards, are far more responsible for 'evil deeds" in the name of a certain ideology than me. Think about that S.

Two things:

1. You have everything to do with Mohammedan (excuse my French) violence because they are doing it in your name insofar as you are a follower of Mohammed.

2. No hijab ripping-off is done in the name of any ideology that I identify with.

So enough of the stupid 'Islamophobia' and 'all we need is condemnatory declarations' BS.

You have murderers i your corner, I don't.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #346 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:56pm

Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm:

2. No hijab ripping-off is done in the name of any ideology that I identify with.

Oh you're so coy S. Its all so trivial and harmless isn't it?

60 something kids were murdered in the name of *YOUR* ideology in Norway, I never saw you condemn it. A few weeks ago 2 non-white school kids were targeted and murdered in Sweden in the name of your ideology. There have been numerous physical assaults on innocent muslims, and by assault I mean bashings, not hijab ripping-off - one instance was labelled on this forum as "totally justified".

There have been countless close calls - for example a couple of years ago a white extremist set up a timed bomb in a mosque in the UK, timed to go off when prayers were scheduled. By pure luck the prayers were postponed and the bomb went off when no one was there. Just last week one of your anti-Islam protestors here was arrested for procuring bomb making material.

And before you say it, no they are not as bad as the Islamist crimes - not by a long shot. But no one is excusing those, no one is ignoring those. There is only one person here excusing and tiptoeing around violence in the name of an extreme ideology, and thats you.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: the meaning of freedom Reply #347 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:58pm Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm: You have murderers i your corner, I don't. Liar. Who the faark do you think Anders Brievik is?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Secret Wars Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3928 Gender:	Re: the meaning of freedom Reply #348 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:16pm polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:58pm: Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm: You have murderers i your corner, I don't. Liar. Who the faark do you think Anders Brievik is? Not inspired by religion?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: the meaning of freedom Reply #349 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 6:32am Secret Wars wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:16pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:58pm: Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm: You have murderers i your corner, I don't. Liar. Who the faark do you think Anders Brievik is? Not inspired by religion? Soren is not religious either, but both share the same ideology
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

cosanostra

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #350 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 4:36pm

Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 9:11am:

Soren wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 9:54pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:00pm:

whereas S pretty much argues the opposite (minus the biological aspect). S clearly articulates the view that muslims "should know better", and should be attacked because of their choice of belief/culture - rooted in the premise that they are redeemable. Moses on the other hand clearly takes the "doomed a-priori" view - because they are inately degenerate, because of genetics.

Very good - if you believe in Islam you ARE responsible for that belief. You have taken on the responsibility for Islam. You are not a passive fVcken VICTIM of it but its conscious, free and considered adherent and follower. It's evil deeds are YOUR responsibility.

There must be thousands of conscientious objectors to Islam, people in possession of a normal moral compass, who are ABANDONING Islam in the wake of every new atrocity in the name of Islam.
You either take responsibility for the way Islam is or you abandon Islam. You cannot say "I am a Muslim but I have nuffin' to do wiv the way Islam is."

Go ahead, say it, say that you are a Muslim but you have nuffin' to do wiv the way Islam is. Go on, Gandy, say it.

Soren, I have nuffin' to do wiv the way some muslims behave that are contrary to my own beliefs on Islam.

If I was materially supporting or advancing their cause - or even giving moral support, even tacitly, then you could level the accusation at me with some plausibility.

You, on the other hand give tacit support to anti-Islam violence - by continually refusing to say anything against it. I've been giving you the opportunity these last few weeks, but not a peep. Just deflection deflection deflection. You, therefore, by your own standards, are far more responsible for 'evil deeds" in the name of a certain ideology than me. Think about that S.

Two things:

1. You have everything to do with Mohammedan (excuse my French) violence because they are doing it in your name insofar as you are a follower of Mohammed.

2. No hijab ripping-off is done in the name of any ideology that I identify with.

So enough of the stupid 'Islamophobia' and 'all we need is condemnatory declarations' BS.

You have murderers i your corner, I don't.

Don't waste your time talking with muslims they are brainwashed beyond belief and have no reasoning faculties.
In fact they are in capable of rational independent thought.

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Soren

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #351 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 4:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 9:11am:

Soren, I have nuffin' to do wiv the way some muslims behave that are contrary to my own beliefs on Islam.

If I was materially supporting or advancing their cause - or even giving moral support, even tacitly, then you could level the accusation at me with some plausibility.

You, on the other hand give tacit support to anti-Islam violence - by continually refusing to say anything against it. I've been giving you the opportunity these last few weeks, but not a peep. Just deflection deflection deflection. You, therefore, by your own standards, are far more responsible for 'evil deeds" in the name of a certain ideology than me. Think about that S.

I have nuffin' to do wiv anti-Islam violence.
If I was materially supporting or advancing their cause - or even giving moral support, even tacitly, then you could level the accusation at me with some plausibility.

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Soren

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #352 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 4:50pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:56pm:

And before you say it, no they are not as bad as the Islamist crimes - not by a long shot. But no one is excusing those, no one is ignoring those. There is only one person here excusing and tiptoeing around violence in the name of an extreme ideology, and thats you.

Everyone from the Grand Mufti down is excusing them, always have.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #353 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:17pm

Soren wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 4:45pm:

I have nuffin' to do wiv anti-Islam violence.
If I was materially supporting or advancing their cause - or even giving moral support, even tacitly, then you could level the accusation at me with some plausibility.

You refuse to acknowledge it is a problem and I've never once seen you condemn it.

Thats good enough in my book - and definitely fits your own criteria.

Soren = hypocrite

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: the meaning of freedom Reply #354 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:31pm polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:58pm: Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm: You have murderers i your corner, I don't. Liar. Who the faark do you think Anders Brievik is? He is not in my corner.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #355 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:41pm

Soren wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:58pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:29pm:

You have murderers i your corner, I don't.

Liar. Who the faark do you think Anders Brievik is?

He is not in my corner.

- but Baghdadi and bin Laden etc are in mine right?

Not so fun when the boots on the other foot eh?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #356 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:17pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 4:45pm:

I have nuffin' to do wiv anti-Islam violence.
If I was materially supporting or advancing their cause - or even giving moral support, even tacitly, then you could level the accusation at me with some plausibility.

You refuse to acknowledge it is a problem and I've never once seen you condemn it.

Thats good enough in my book - and definitely fits your own criteria.

Soren = hypocrite

It is a problem absolutely dwarfed by the bloody mayhem carried out in the name of Islam.

I will not play your lame-o game of victimhood, trying to equate, worse, to claim the moral high ground, after 130 dead in Paris. The odd niqabi is given someone's piece of mind about her creed. If she had any decency, she wouldn't go around in a niqab after what her co-religionists did in Paris, London, Madrid, Beirut, Baghdad etc, etc, etc.

I mean to say, when will you ever be ashamed? When will you ever be remorseful? When will you ever CHANGE???

Don't bleat to me about goddamned hijabis being made to feel uncomfortable when 130 Parisians are murdered. Dead. Killed for being non-Muslims. No other reason. Targeted for being non-Muslims, targeted in the name of Mohammed, Allah, the Koran and hadiths.

Do you have any sense of decency, any sense of proportion? No.
Your imaginary victimhood is everything to you. Your victimhood- mongering is obscene. Your co-religinists are murdering the kuffar and you have the front to kvetch about some hijabis. Islam is the perpetrator of mayhem. What the bombers visit on the Middle East is a RESPONSE.

In the immortal words of Joan Rivers, YOU MUSLIMS have started it. You always start it, from the day Islam attacked the Christian Roman Empire to today. You, sons of Mohammed, are the fat kid in this vid.

i

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96294 Gender:	Re: the meaning of freedom Reply #357 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 6:15pm Good point, old boy. When will they ever CHANGE? Always absolutely never ever, innit. It’s one thing for you to offer moral support to Anders Breivik. It’s another for G to condemn ISIS every chance he gets. You’re superior, no?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: the meaning of freedom Reply #358 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 6:49pm Soren wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:44pm: The odd niqabi is given someone's piece of mind about her creed. If she had any decency, she wouldn't go around in a niqab after what her co-religionists did in Paris This is why I have the moral high ground. You are beyond pathetic Soren.
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Soren

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Re: the meaning of freedom
Reply #359 - Dec 4^th, 2015 at 7:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 6:49pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 4^th, 2015 at 5:44pm:

The odd niqabi is given someone's piece of mind about her creed. If she had any decency, she wouldn't go around in a niqab after what her co-religionists did in Paris

This is why I have the moral high ground.

You are beyond pathetic Soren.

You absolutely do not have any kind of moral ground.

Reign in your Mohammedan co-religionists and if you do, you may have a moral ground. But you do absolutely nothing but bleat about how people are pissed off about Muslims going about as if Islam had nuffin to do wiv nuffin'. Well, the niqabis and the bearded pajamo boys are demonstrating they are ion the side of the murderers.

Islam has everything to do with Islamic terrorism and all you can EVER bring yourself to is complaining about the backlash against Muslims over tomorrow's train bombing, tomorrow's attack on a theatre, tomorrow's shooting of a police employee or San Bernardino Christmas party by a couple of Muslims.

You do F VCK ALL about Muslims who are plotting tomorrow's train bombing because you bleat, like a cornered and hopeless apparatchik, about 'they have nuffin to do wiv the Islam I believe in'. But they DO speak for you and you do NOT speak for them. That's the point you are desperate to be seen not to comprehend.

But they are your people. Anyone who murders in the name of Islam is your moral problem - AND SO YOU WANT TO AVOID it. Muslim terrorists are your problem, Gandy, you are a Muslim, they are Muslims, they act in the name of Islam - your f vcked up brothers and sisters, you sort them out, you reign them in, you show how they are not like you. And if you do not, you are also the problem.

You are as bad as the Grand Miff -ti - you will lie so as not to confront your Mohammedan co-religionists. It a Muslim thing, we all know, not to be critical of other Mohammedans in front of kuffar.

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