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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18312 Gender:	Re: Guns Reply #75 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:44pm greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:35pm: Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent You have no evidence of that peccahead,stop telling lies.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 136426 Gender:	Re: Guns Reply #76 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:45pm Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:35pm: Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent You have no evidence of that peccahead,stop telling lies. Substantiate your claim, please.
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mariacostel

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Re: Guns
Reply #77 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:56pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent

You have no evidence of that peccahead,stop telling lies.

There are multiple studies that prove exactly that. the Death Penalty has been shown in many, many studies to be at worse ineffective and in some cases paradoxically lead to an increase in murders.

You don't do your viewpoint any good by stating something you know to be false.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Guns
Reply #78 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:01pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:45pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent

You have no evidence of that peccahead,stop telling lies.

Substantiate your claim, please.

The law deters the law abiding, you provide evidence for your claim peccahead

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Pho Huc

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Re: Guns
Reply #79 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:05pm

How about getting rid of jails and instituting the death penalty?

I've yet to hear one good argument in favour of jails, It appears to me that the only reason we have them is because of vestigial sense of obligatory vengeance.

In my mind, there are two types of criminal. People who are fundamentally damaged(eg Martin Bryant) with deep psychological issues and limited prospect of benefiting society.

The other types are those who commit crimes of greed, passion or stupidity. These people do not benefit from incarceration.

I would love to see a system that is geared to give the greatest benefit to society at the lowest cost. For me this would mean execution of the former type, and rehabilitation of the second type. Its much cheaper to send a criminal to university than jail, and much better for them and society, both before and after.

I think it is kinder to execute someone than keep them locked up for 50 years, and much cheaper.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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mariacostel

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Re: Guns
Reply #80 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:08pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:01pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:45pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent

You have no evidence of that peccahead,stop telling lies.

Substantiate your claim, please.

The law deters the law abiding, you provide evidence for your claim peccahead

I don't know if you realise it yet and I'm guessing not, but you own statement makes the opposite case to what you think it does.

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mariacostel

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Re: Guns
Reply #81 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:10pm

Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

How about getting rid of jails and instituting the death penalty?

I've yet to hear one good argument in favour of jails, It appears to me that the only reason we have them is because of vestigial sense of obligatory vengeance.

In my mind, there are two types of criminal. People who are fundamentally damaged(eg Martin Bryant) with deep psychological issues and limited prospect of benefiting society.

The other types are those who commit crimes of greed, passion or stupidity. These people do not benefit from incarceration.

I would love to see a system that is geared to give the greatest benefit to society at the lowest cost. For me this would mean execution of the former type, and rehabilitation of the second type. Its much cheaper to send a criminal to university than jail, and much better for them and society, both before and after.

I think it is kinder to execute someone than keep them locked up for 50 years, and much cheaper.

Well there have been some dumb statements on this thread, but you've topped them all.

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Pho Huc

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Re: Guns
Reply #82 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:21pm

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:56pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent

You have no evidence of that peccahead,stop telling lies.

There are multiple studies that prove exactly that. the Death Penalty has been shown in many, many studies to be at worse ineffective and in some cases paradoxically lead to an increase in murders.

You don't do your viewpoint any good by stating something you know to be false.

I did read a study that showed an increase in the murder rate after capital punishment was introduced.
Basically because the punishment for crime was so bad people were careful not to leave witnesses alive.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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Pho Huc

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Re: Guns
Reply #83 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:22pm

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:10pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

How about getting rid of jails and instituting the death penalty?

I've yet to hear one good argument in favour of jails, It appears to me that the only reason we have them is because of vestigial sense of obligatory vengeance.

In my mind, there are two types of criminal. People who are fundamentally damaged(eg Martin Bryant) with deep psychological issues and limited prospect of benefiting society.

The other types are those who commit crimes of greed, passion or stupidity. These people do not benefit from incarceration.

I would love to see a system that is geared to give the greatest benefit to society at the lowest cost. For me this would mean execution of the former type, and rehabilitation of the second type. Its much cheaper to send a criminal to university than jail, and much better for them and society, both before and after.

I think it is kinder to execute someone than keep them locked up for 50 years, and much cheaper.

Well there have been some dumb statements on this thread, but you've topped them all.

It would be much more productive if you explained why you think its stupid.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: Guns Reply #84 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:30pm repost
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mariacostel

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Re: Guns
Reply #85 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 8:22pm

Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:10pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

How about getting rid of jails and instituting the death penalty?

I've yet to hear one good argument in favour of jails, It appears to me that the only reason we have them is because of vestigial sense of obligatory vengeance.

In my mind, there are two types of criminal. People who are fundamentally damaged(eg Martin Bryant) with deep psychological issues and limited prospect of benefiting society.

The other types are those who commit crimes of greed, passion or stupidity. These people do not benefit from incarceration.

I would love to see a system that is geared to give the greatest benefit to society at the lowest cost. For me this would mean execution of the former type, and rehabilitation of the second type. Its much cheaper to send a criminal to university than jail, and much better for them and society, both before and after.

I think it is kinder to execute someone than keep them locked up for 50 years, and much cheaper.

Well there have been some dumb statements on this thread, but you've topped them all.

Any chance you could explain that statement?

I highlighted the silliest ones for you.

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Bobby.

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Re: Guns
Reply #86 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 8:52pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:13pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

Drugs should be treated as a medical problem, not a police matter. Hanging addicts will achieve what? Especially if they have not committed a capital crime?

No silly - I meant ice addicts who murder people should be hanged

in public - as a deterrent to others.

Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent, Booby.

You know that.

Just ask George Carlin:

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Pho Huc

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Re: Guns
Reply #87 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:04pm

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 8:22pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:10pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

How about getting rid of jails and instituting the death penalty?

I've yet to hear one good argument in favour of jails, It appears to me that the only reason we have them is because of vestigial sense of obligatory vengeance.

In my mind, there are two types of criminal. People who are fundamentally damaged(eg Martin Bryant) with deep psychological issues and limited prospect of benefiting society.

The other types are those who commit crimes of greed, passion or stupidity. These people do not benefit from incarceration.

I would love to see a system that is geared to give the greatest benefit to society at the lowest cost. For me this would mean execution of the former type, and rehabilitation of the second type. Its much cheaper to send a criminal to university than jail, and much better for them and society, both before and after.

I think it is kinder to execute someone than keep them locked up for 50 years, and much cheaper.

Well there have been some dumb statements on this thread, but you've topped them all.

Any chance you could explain that statement?

I highlighted the silliest ones for you.

"I've yet to hear one good argument in favour of jails"

Why, do you have a good argument for them that you've been keeping secret? I know jails are traditional, but that doesn't make them implicitly necessary. From a behaviouristic point of view punishment is a very inefficient way of motivating behavior.
If Prison is not the best way of motivating the desired behavior, why are we using them?

"In my mind, there are two types of criminal"

Ok, you got me here. This is a massive oversimplification but I was trying to keep my post concise. The point I was attempting to make is that there are two types of criminal.
One can be rehabilitated and will not commit more crime.
One can not be rehabilitated and commit crime if given the opportunity.

"Its much cheaper to send a criminal to university than jail"

Average cost per day of a prisoner in Australia $292.00 per day or $106 K a year.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/02/02/how-much-does-it-cost-keep-people-australian-jails

Cost of doing a non-government subsidized degree in clinical medicine(there most expensive course) at Melbourne uni(most expensive in Australia) 80 K per year.

http://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/fees/ug-intl/subject-fees

So its 25 thousand dollars a year more expensive to send someone to jail than the most expensive course, of the most expensive university in Australia.

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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Johnsmith

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Re: Guns
Reply #88 - Sep 10^th, 2015 at 9:15pm

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:31pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:26pm:

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 6:12pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 5:30pm:

mariacostel wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 5:17pm:

We are actually discussing ZERO DOUBT rather than very little doubt. Collusion among witnesses is not unknown. Corrupt testimony and fake or incorrect evidence is also not unknown. That is why we have REASONABLE DOUBT.

ALL the evidence combined leaves no doubt .... don't just nitpick on collusion among witnesses.

First hand witnesses, coupled with DNA, coupled with all the other hundreds of bits of evidence, including recordings of phone taps, victims personal effects in his possession etc presented in court leaves ZERO doubt that Milat is guilty

ABSOLUTELY ZERO DOUBT

You have no idea what zero means, do you. And while you parade around a single case, you miss the point as you seem to do in pretty much every thread.

Who's parading a single case? I'm using one case as an example. There are many other cases where the death penalty should apply.

You do realise that you claiming I miss the point with every reply isn't an actual rebuff of my argument? right? Cheesy

talk about missing the point. Grin

The discussion is about ZERO DOUBT - a concept you fail to understand.

you really are retarded aren't you?

When you look at all the evidence TOGETHER, there is ZERO doubt. your argument was that DNA wasn't without fault because it didn't mean the sample taken was supplied whilst killing them, I showed other evidence that showed him at the crime scene, so you then argue that witnesses aren't reliable ... true, on it's own, but when you look at the witnesses, and the DNA, and the hundreds of other bits of evidence they found, they back each other up and there is no doubt as to the conclusion that they draw.

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

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BigOl64 Gold Member Offline Posts: 14438 Townsville QLD Gender:	Re: Guns Reply #89 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 7:16am Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10^th, 2015 at 7:21pm: I did read a study that showed an increase in the murder rate after capital punishment was introduced. Basically because the punishment for crime was so bad people were careful not to leave witnesses alive.
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