Australian Politics Forum - Traveling to-from work is paid work time

Unforgiven

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Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Sep 11^th, 2015 at 12:42pm

EU has ruled on this which establishes legal precedent. Service people traveling from home to an assigned job and leaving from an assigned job returning home are on paid time according to EU legal judgement.

Legal precedent is established.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34210002
Quote:

Time spent travelling to and from first and last appointments by workers without a fixed office should be regarded as working time, the European Court of Justice has ruled.
This time has not previously been considered as work by many employers.
It means firms including those employing care workers, gas fitters and sales reps may be in breach of EU working time regulations.
BBC legal correspondent Clive Coleman said it could have a "huge effect".
"Employers may have to organise work schedules to ensure workers' first and last appointments are close to their homes," he added.
'Health and safety'
Chris Tutton, from the solicitors Irwin Mitchell, told the BBC: "Thousands of employers may now potentially be in breach of working time regulation rules in the UK."
The court said its judgement was about protecting the "health and safety" of workers as set out in the European Union's working time directive.
The directive is designed to protect workers from exploitation by employers, and it lays down regulations on matters such as how long employees work, how many breaks they have, and how much holiday they are entitled to.
One of its main goals is to ensure that no employee in the EU is obliged to work more than an average of 48 hours a week.
The ruling came about because of an ongoing legal case in Spain involving a company called Tyco, which installs security systems.
'Bear the burden'
The company shut its regional offices down in 2011, resulting in employees travelling varying distances before arriving at their first appointment.
The court ruling said: "The fact that the workers begin and finish the journeys at their homes stems directly from the decision of their employer to abolish the regional offices and not from the desire of the workers themselves.
"Requiring them to bear the burden of their employer's choice would be contrary to the objective of protecting the safety and health of workers pursued by the directive, which includes the necessity of guaranteeing workers a minimum rest period."
Meanwhile, employment law barrister Caspar Glyn agreed the court's decision could affect "millions of workers".
However, Mr Glyn also said there had been much speculation that this ruling could allow workers on the national minimum wage to claim more money for the time they spend getting to work.
But he said this would not be the case.
"The national minimum wage is a UK right, it is not a European right. There's no European right to a national minimum wage.
"The minimum wage regulations in the UK do not count as work travel from home or to any workplace," he said.

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mariacostel

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #1 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 1:50pm

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 12:42pm:

EU has ruled on this which establishes legal precedent. Service people traveling from home to an assigned job and leaving from an assigned job returning home are on paid time according to EU legal judgement.

Legal precedent is established.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34210002
Quote:

Time spent travelling to and from first and last appointments by workers without a fixed office should be regarded as working time, the European Court of Justice has ruled.
This time has not previously been considered as work by many employers.
It means firms including those employing care workers, gas fitters and sales reps may be in breach of EU working time regulations.
BBC legal correspondent Clive Coleman said it could have a "huge effect".
"Employers may have to organise work schedules to ensure workers' first and last appointments are close to their homes," he added.
'Health and safety'
Chris Tutton, from the solicitors Irwin Mitchell, told the BBC: "Thousands of employers may now potentially be in breach of working time regulation rules in the UK."
The court said its judgement was about protecting the "health and safety" of workers as set out in the European Union's working time directive.
The directive is designed to protect workers from exploitation by employers, and it lays down regulations on matters such as how long employees work, how many breaks they have, and how much holiday they are entitled to.
One of its main goals is to ensure that no employee in the EU is obliged to work more than an average of 48 hours a week.
The ruling came about because of an ongoing legal case in Spain involving a company called Tyco, which installs security systems.
'Bear the burden'
The company shut its regional offices down in 2011, resulting in employees travelling varying distances before arriving at their first appointment.
The court ruling said: "The fact that the workers begin and finish the journeys at their homes stems directly from the decision of their employer to abolish the regional offices and not from the desire of the workers themselves.
"Requiring them to bear the burden of their employer's choice would be contrary to the objective of protecting the safety and health of workers pursued by the directive, which includes the necessity of guaranteeing workers a minimum rest period."
Meanwhile, employment law barrister Caspar Glyn agreed the court's decision could affect "millions of workers".
However, Mr Glyn also said there had been much speculation that this ruling could allow workers on the national minimum wage to claim more money for the time they spend getting to work.
But he said this would not be the case.
"The national minimum wage is a UK right, it is not a European right. There's no European right to a national minimum wage.
"The minimum wage regulations in the UK do not count as work travel from home or to any workplace," he said.

Firstly, it establishes a precedent in the EU, not here. Secondly, it only applies to workers without and actual office and as I understand it, that may already apply here anyhow.

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lee

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #2 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:03pm

It certainly already applies here.

It may be called "working from home", it applies also if you travel from home to an appointment and then onto your office. However, it doesn't apply if you just pick up office mail, office milk etc, on the way to the office.

The Tax Office says that then there is "insufficient nexus between the travel and the earning of income".

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Unforgiven

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #3 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:15pm

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:03pm:

It certainly already applies here.

It may be called "working from home", it applies also if you travel from home to an appointment and then onto your office. However, it doesn't apply if you just pick up office mail, office milk etc, on the way to the office.

The Tax Office says that then there is "insufficient nexus between the travel and the earning of income".

It's not a tax issue. It's a remuneration issue.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17311 Gender:	Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time Reply #4 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 3:12pm Even then, when working for the fiscal fiend, my work day started from home when I had early appointments and ended at home when I had late appointments, finished at home.
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Unforgiven

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #5 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 3:40pm

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 3:12pm:

Even then, when working for the fiscal fiend, my work day started from home when I had early appointments and ended at home when I had late appointments, finished at home.

So you confess to have been engaged in oppression of the population?

That's why you are so angry. You wasted your life.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17311 Gender:	Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time Reply #6 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:00pm I have done many things. Studied and tried to make myself recession proof.
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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time Reply #7 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:38pm lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:00pm: I have done many things. Studied and tried to make myself recession proof. By oppressing taxpayers for a handful of coins?
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #8 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:39pm

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:15pm:

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:03pm:

It certainly already applies here.

It may be called "working from home", it applies also if you travel from home to an appointment and then onto your office. However, it doesn't apply if you just pick up office mail, office milk etc, on the way to the office.

The Tax Office says that then there is "insufficient nexus between the travel and the earning of income".

It's not a tax issue. It's a remuneration issue.

And it's a non-issue, except for the concept of injury (in Australia)..

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mariacostel

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #9 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:48pm

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 3:40pm:

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 3:12pm:

Even then, when working for the fiscal fiend, my work day started from home when I had early appointments and ended at home when I had late appointments, finished at home.

So you confess to have been engaged in oppression of the population?

That's why you are so angry. You wasted your life.

And you are quite simply, UNHINGED.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time Reply #10 - Sep 11^th, 2015 at 10:10pm Unforgiven wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:38pm: lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:00pm: I have done many things. Studied and tried to make myself recession proof. By oppressing taxpayers for a handful of coins? I would oppress you for nothing. I'd PAY to oppress you.
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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time Reply #11 - Sep 14^th, 2015 at 7:50am About 30 years ago I won a case against the ATO on this kind of issue. It was then and probably still is an area oftax law like a dog's breakfast.
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Phemanderac

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #12 - Sep 14^th, 2015 at 8:48am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:15pm:

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:03pm:

It certainly already applies here.

It may be called "working from home", it applies also if you travel from home to an appointment and then onto your office. However, it doesn't apply if you just pick up office mail, office milk etc, on the way to the office.

The Tax Office says that then there is "insufficient nexus between the travel and the earning of income".

It's not a tax issue. It's a remuneration issue.

And it's a non-issue, except for the concept of injury (in Australia)..

You might want to check into that. Pretty sure the workers compensation act was changed in the last few years. Workers are no longer covered travelling to and from work... Except if you have a union that agrees to pick up the tab...

Damn those unions eh...Fancy picking up the tab for workers comp that employers simply no longer want to provide...

Damn those unions eh...

OK, perhaps not Australia wide, I just found this link...

http://depa.net.au/index.php/news-a-views/latest-news/185-government-removes-wor...

So, in NSW our esteemed Government removed workers comp for travel to and from work...

Isn't that great for business?

Damn those unions eh!i

Please note, I am a member of a Union that has implemented insurance for its members travelling to and from work as part of my membership - yep, those nasty trade unions eh!

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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time Reply #13 - Sep 14^th, 2015 at 8:50am By the way, EU is not really all that relevant to Australian work place practices. I am fairly sure that travelling to and from has never been considered paid time, apart from once (in NSW at least) upon a time there being compensation for accident or injury whilst travelling to and fro...
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Swagman

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Re: Traveling to-from work is paid work time
Reply #14 - Sep 14^th, 2015 at 12:36pm

lee wrote on Sep 11^th, 2015 at 2:03pm:

It certainly already applies here.

It may be called "working from home", it applies also if you travel from home to an appointment and then onto your office. However, it doesn't apply if you just pick up office mail, office milk etc, on the way to the office.

The Tax Office says that then there is "insufficient nexus between the travel and the earning of income".

That would be a claim on the usage expense (km reimbursement) of a private car for business use.

Quote:

Traveling to-from work is paid work time

.....so everyone will make sure they take 4 hours to get to work & 4 hours to get home? Cheesy

Might put a bite on productivity?

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