Australian Politics Forum - Message To Productivity Commission

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59372 Here Gender:	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #15 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:42am Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 7:46am: Penalty rates cause unemployment An untrue statement that nobody has ever been able to support.
Back to top	IP Logged

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59372 Here Gender:	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #16 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:53am People who work shift work, work for shift penalties there is no other reason. People will walk away from these jobs in droves businesses will close down and unemployment will drastically increase.
Back to top	IP Logged

stunspore

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5097
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #17 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 9:35am

Research already proven that those doing shift work have lower lifespan, poorer quality of life, etc.
Think of those penalty rates as "danger money".

Naturally swag and a few those guys think penalty rates cause unemployment. Them and Gina thinks at $2 per hour is already too generous a pay. Bring it down to say $1 per hour and no doubt we will have full employment!

Back to top

IP Logged

crocodile Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6683 Gender:	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #18 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:17pm I'd really like to know what the productivity commission is doing about productivity. Slipping away for nearly two decades and nary a peep out of them.
Back to top	Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes. IP Logged

Johnsmith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4716
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #19 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:19pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:00am:

____ wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 7:46am:

Penalty rates cause unemployment

Bad decisions cause unemployment, not penalty rates.

Yes rejecting industrial relation reform is a bad decision.

not if the proposed reform is a load of bollocks to start with

Back to top

When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

IP Logged

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #20 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:34pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:42am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:12am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:10am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 7:46am:

Penalty rates cause unemployment

Cutting worker wages will entrench the recession and cause more unemployment.

No one would get a wage cut.

Paying people less for more work is a pay cut.

It's not more work, it's the same amount of work. That's why penalty rates are illogical and a drain on productivity.

And, like anything, such a policy reform would have to be phased in for new employees' contracts.

If the business has trouble getting workers on a Sunday then it will offer more pay to attract them, in the same way that it may pay one person more than another because they are more productive. If there's plenty of workers willing to work at single time on Sunday, then the business wouldn't have to pay more to attract them.

Unless of course a Union behaves like a cartel and bans its members and intimidates non members from working on a Sunday without penalty rates, until the business has to either pay an artificial labour cost (penalty rate) or not open at all? ----> Either way the penalty rate is causing unemployment in this instance.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59372
Here
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #21 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:37pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:34pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:42am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:12am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:10am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 7:46am:

Penalty rates cause unemployment

Cutting worker wages will entrench the recession and cause more unemployment.

No one would get a wage cut.

Paying people less for more work is a pay cut.

It's not more work, it's the same amount of work. That's why penalty rates are illogical and a drain on productivity.

And, like anything, such a policy reform would have to be phased in for new employees' contracts.

If the business has trouble getting workers on a Sunday then it will offer more pay to attract them, in the same way that it may pay one person more than another because they are more productive. If there's plenty of workers willing to work at single time on Sunday, then the business wouldn't have to pay more to attract them.

Unless of course a Union behaves like a cartel and bans its members and intimidates non members from working on a Sunday without penalty rates, until the business has to either pay an artificial labour cost (penalty rate) or not open at all? ----> Either way the penalty rate is causing unemployment in this instance.

And, like anything, such a policy reform

Going backwards isn't reform.

It's not more work, it's the same amount of work.

If they are paying you less they will ask you to work more. In the end the equation is more for less, more hours / less money.

If the business has trouble getting workers on a Sunday then it will offer more pay to attract them

Then why bother at all if the change is going to be nullified? The reason is simple your year 10 economics does not work in the real world. Business preys on disadvantaged people who have no other option but to take the minimum on offer as we see repeatedly driven by the employer / business cartels.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59372
Here
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #22 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:43pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:34pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:42am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:12am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:10am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 7:46am:

Penalty rates cause unemployment

Cutting worker wages will entrench the recession and cause more unemployment.

No one would get a wage cut.

Paying people less for more work is a pay cut.

It's not more work, it's the same amount of work. That's why penalty rates are illogical and a drain on productivity.

And, like anything, such a policy reform would have to be phased in for new employees' contracts.

If the business has trouble getting workers on a Sunday then it will offer more pay to attract them, in the same way that it may pay one person more than another because they are more productive. If there's plenty of workers willing to work at single time on Sunday, then the business wouldn't have to pay more to attract them.

Unless of course a Union behaves like a cartel and bans its members and intimidates non members from working on a Sunday without penalty rates, until the business has to either pay an artificial labour cost (penalty rate) or not open at all? ----> Either way the penalty rate is causing unemployment in this instance.

Quote:

the penalty rate is causing unemployment in this instance.

Only in the instance you make up - not in the real world.

Back to top

IP Logged

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #23 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:47pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:37pm:

If they are paying you less they will ask you to work more. In the end the equation is more for less, more hours / less money.

If your job is making boxes and you make 100 boxes a day. If you work on a Sunday, then you will still only make 100 boxes. Your productivity doesn't double? Why should you get paid double?

Before you go on with all the bull crap about Sunday being a family day, the Sabbath and friend day, and kids are home day and the footy's on etc etc etc their are still individuals that don't give a hoot about these things and just want work.

Back to top

IP Logged

stunspore

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5097
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #24 - Sep 19^th, 2015 at 10:27pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:37pm:

If they are paying you less they will ask you to work more. In the end the equation is more for less, more hours / less money.

If your job is making boxes and you make 100 boxes a day. If you work on a Sunday, then you will still only make 100 boxes. Your productivity doesn't double? Why should you get paid double?

Before you go on with all the bull crap about Sunday being a family day, the Sabbath and friend day, and kids are home day and the footy's on etc etc etc their are still individuals that don't give a hoot about these things and just want work.

If you go on google, you will find those doing shift work have been proven to have poorer quality of life including poorer health. These people deserve to be fairly compensated.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85403 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #25 - Sep 20^th, 2015 at 2:24am Eat My Shorts! ... oh.. sorry - I thought you were asking for a message to the PC.... bunch of ghetts....
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 85403
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #26 - Sep 20^th, 2015 at 2:29am

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:12am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 8:10am:

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 7:46am:

Penalty rates cause unemployment

Cutting worker wages will entrench the recession and cause more unemployment.

No one would get a wage cut.

Only if it is a given that weekends etc do not incur penalty rates as required. They would get an income cut, though, and income is the reason they work weekends.

I work only weekends and only nights... I get a fair whack for that... if it were all ordinary time it would not be worth it, especially for the full time workers where I work. Many such would lose massively, and the town would nearly die.

I just got home an hour ago... does the 'productivity commission' work Saturday night into Sunday morning for their fat pay cheque? Not on your life!

I say abolish them as an unnecessary additional QANGO when we already have an Industrial Commission to resolve industrial relations issues.... just another job for a few of the old mates, boys and girls.

Nothing new there - just another super-fat freebie out of the public purse for some old cronies.

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59372
Here
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #27 - Sep 20^th, 2015 at 8:56am

Swagman wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 19^th, 2015 at 3:37pm:

If they are paying you less they will ask you to work more. In the end the equation is more for less, more hours / less money.

If your job is making boxes and you make 100 boxes a day. If you work on a Sunday, then you will still only make 100 boxes. Your productivity doesn't double? Why should you get paid double?

Before you go on with all the bull crap about Sunday being a family day, the Sabbath and friend day, and kids are home day and the footy's on etc etc etc their are still individuals that don't give a hoot about these things and just want work.

The point of working on Sunday and paying penalty rates is that it is not necessary to make boxes on Sunday and the penalty is a deliberate disincentive to being so stupid as to expect people to be making boxes on a Sunday.

If you are producing boxes on Sunday they are premium boxes that are supplying a lucrative market and making the company a profit.

their are still individuals that don't give a hoot about these things and just want work.

With around 40 years of shift work I never found one of these people ?

Back to top

IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 85403
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #28 - Sep 20^th, 2015 at 11:22am

Dnarever wrote on Sep 20^th, 2015 at 8:56am:

their are still individuals that don't give a hoot about these things and just want work. **

With around 40 years of shift work I never found one of these people ?

** You mean can be bludgeoned into accepting any few dollars to stay alive in a market where those allegedly running the show deliberately create massive unemployment and poverty as a means of getting their way?

Corrmie has weighed in:- https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/29578726/we-have-to-be-competitive-cormann/

"As senior Liberal Mathias Cormann awaits his fate in the Turnbull government he has stressed Australia must be internationally competitive.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull put the handling of the economy at the centre of his challenge to oust former leader Tony Abbott last Monday.

"I agree we can always do better and certainly from my point of view ... I will continue to do my best in whatever capacity the leader sees fit," the current finance minister told Sky News on Sunday.

Senator Cormann said the government should be explaining the economic challenges the nation was facing.

As an exporting nation[color=#ff0000] (read Banana Republic
), the government must focus on doing everything it can to ensure the economy is as competitive internationally
(meaning business must make lots of money)
as it can be, while improving productivity
(read chopping wages of workers)
and reducing the cost of doing business
(read pillage workers to benefit business)
.

Former Liberal leader John Hewson said it was about marketing the message
(and that's all it is - nothing of substance)
that gives a better explanation in a very uncertain global economy
(which will continue as long as short-sighted and selfish idiots like us hold sway)
.

He said the government must focus on an objective, like doubling the nation's productivity by 2025
(then stop selling off our utilities and business opportunities overseas)
, and then go through each of the policy areas to explain what needs to be done, whether it is the reform of industrial relations
(industrial relations were fine until this lot started a war over non-issues such as weekend penalty rates)
or tax
(plenty of real avenues for taxation out there, such as super**, international companies - you name it)
or energy and energy efficiency
(by installing alternative energy sources and re-taking by government of the running of the power and so forth = rejection of 'privatisation'.)
.

"You need to reset the agenda because we can't go on with this game where one side (of politics) proposes something and the other side immediately says no
(that's how Tony got rid of Julia/Kevie - and why he copped it back in spades and finally fell as a result - live by the No word, die by the No word)
," Dr Hewson told Sky News"[/color]

**

I got my super statement day before yesterday - I'm over 65 so I don't pay the insurance any more - but I still have tax taken from it @ 15%. I'd like the simple answer as to why those with masses of discretionary income who don't need super or pension get the same deal... and why, if it is considered that equal treatment is required, it is not capped, and you pay full tax after that.

As a casual employee on a very limited income, I pay the same administration costs and tax rate - adding those two together means that the 10% allocated as return on investment is less than half those two things, then if I take this small amount as a lump sum at full retirement I pay tax again.

Tony and his mates can all take a fat cheque every week.... if I left my miserable amount in the fund it would disappear rapidly, so I have no choice but to draw it and foot the bill.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 20^th, 2015 at 11:35am by Grappler Deep State Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85403 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #29 - Sep 20^th, 2015 at 11:37am "double productivity by 2025"...... .. and at what cost to the ordinary person? There is a great future for Manus Island - as a repository for all those politicians found to be rorters, liars, thieves and other forms of social and legal criminal.
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged