Australian Politics Forum - Message To Productivity Commission

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #75 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 2:14pm

crocodile wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 10:17pm:

Nice try Swaggie. I know you know otherwise. Suffice to say that if productivity was measured against the cost of labour rather than time displacement there would never have been any productivity gains at all over the last two centuries. Wages rise because of total factor productivity gains, not the other way around.

What's the productivity gain on a Sunday then to justify increasing pay by 100%?

Paying double time for the same output is effectively adding an extra day into the time displacement part of the productivity equation (as my post cited).

The worker on X2 penalty rate has worked 8 hours (1 day) but got paid for 16 hours (2 days) The worker has effectively 'worked' for 8 hours and produced nothing. Sad

How can that NOT effect productivity?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59372
Here
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #76 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 7:50pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 12:32pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 12:29pm:

That is an assumption made by you....

you've yet to provide any proof to the contrary. You're the one who keeps saying it will create jobs

What do you think would happen if wages were doubled for every day? Huh

You could have used this space to post something with meaning or relevance ?

There is no realistic prospect of doubling wages just like nobody is making boxes on Sundays.

Penalty rates doing what they are meant to do - making it unprofitable to make people work on Sundays if they don't have to or need to.

Back to top

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #77 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 4:27pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 2:14pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 10:17pm:

Nice try Swaggie. I know you know otherwise. Suffice to say that if productivity was measured against the cost of labour rather than time displacement there would never have been any productivity gains at all over the last two centuries. Wages rise because of total factor productivity gains, not the other way around.

What's the productivity gain on a Sunday then to justify increasing pay by 100%?

Paying double time for the same output is effectively adding an extra day into the time displacement part of the productivity equation (as my post cited).

The worker on X2 penalty rate has worked 8 hours (1 day) but got paid for 16 hours (2 days) The worker has effectively 'worked' for 8 hours and produced nothing. Sad

How can that NOT effect productivity?

It hasn't. Same number of boxes per time period = same productivity. The cost of labour is not part of productivity calculations. We've been through this many times already. Sounds more like you're wanting a change to the definition. Like I've already pointed out, if you equate output with the cost of labour we would have never had any productivity gains for centuries.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

stunspore

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5097
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #78 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 4:43pm

Certain days have more intrinsic value in society. Weekends may or may not be more/less important as compared to history.

Choosing to make boxes on the weekend imposes extra cost to reflect this. Swag is welcome to make Mondays and Tuesdays his off days and see how that works out.

Swag and his team doesn't value the Australian lifestyle of having weekends, with a penalty associated for asking people to work on these days. Just like Swag doesn't believe in handing in taxes associated with progressive tax rate. I await patiently for him and his kind to emigrate to a more friendly country to his liking.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59372
Here
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #79 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 4:47pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 2:14pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 21^st, 2015 at 10:17pm:

Nice try Swaggie. I know you know otherwise. Suffice to say that if productivity was measured against the cost of labour rather than time displacement there would never have been any productivity gains at all over the last two centuries. Wages rise because of total factor productivity gains, not the other way around.

Paying double time for the same output is effectively adding an extra day into the time displacement part of the productivity equation (as my post cited).What's the productivity gain on a Sunday then to justify increasing pay by 100%?

The worker on X2 penalty rate has worked 8 hours (1 day) but got paid for 16 hours (2 days) The worker has effectively 'worked' for 8 hours and produced nothing. Sad

How can that NOT effect productivity?

What's the productivity gain on a Sunday then to justify increasing pay by 100%?

Sunday productivity has no relevance, it is a premium day with a natural premium price attached, the benefit is that this serves as a disincentive to open on Sunday unless it is necessary or profitable when taking the full cost into account.

The idea is that there is incentive for the employer to not open on Sunday and for people to have the day off work or to be adequately compensated if they are required to work.

That means that box builders do not open on Sundays unless their is a special job that will meet the cost.

It prevents employers from being their natural stupid greedy selves.

Back to top

IP Logged

Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #80 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 5:59pm Dnarever wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm: Penalty rates doing what they are meant to do - making it unprofitable to make people work on Sundays if they don't have to or need to. Thankyou for acknowledging that penalty rates cause unemployment.
Back to top	IP Logged

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #81 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 6:08pm

stunspore wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 4:43pm:

Certain days have more intrinsic value in society. Weekends may or may not be more/less important as compared to history.

Choosing to make boxes on the weekend imposes extra cost to reflect this. Swag is welcome to make Mondays and Tuesdays his off days and see how that works out.

Swag and his team doesn't value the Australian lifestyle of having weekends, with a penalty associated for asking people to work on these days. Just like Swag doesn't believe in handing in taxes associated with progressive tax rate. I await patiently for him and his kind to emigrate to a more friendly country to his liking.

Swag Co-op Ltd would make boxes 7 days a week, employ more people, and be more competitive and therefore win the box making contract whilst DumlazypricksPtyLtd loses it's contract for being too expensive and all it's employees go on the dole......and then everyday is Sunday but the dole doesn't pay penalty rates.... Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Crook Ex Member	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #82 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 6:11pm Penalty rates are for the fact, you want people to work these hours.
Back to top	IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59372
Here
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #83 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 7:40pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm:

Penalty rates doing what they are meant to do - making it unprofitable to make people work on Sundays if they don't have to or need to.

Thankyou for acknowledging that penalty rates cause unemployment.

No they don't - stopping stupidity does not impact employment.

Back to top

IP Logged

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #84 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:08pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 7:40pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm:

Penalty rates doing what they are meant to do - making it unprofitable to make people work on Sundays if they don't have to or need to.

Thankyou for acknowledging that penalty rates cause unemployment.

No they don't - stopping stupidity does not impact employment.

No you've quite correctly pointed out that increasing the price of labour with a penalty rate decreases its demand and a decrease in demand for employment is akin to causing unemployment.... Sad

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Crook Ex Member	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #85 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:27pm I didn't know the unemployed wanted to work weekends, without penalty rates.
Back to top	IP Logged

Johnsmith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4716
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #86 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:28pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 7:40pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm:

Penalty rates doing what they are meant to do - making it unprofitable to make people work on Sundays if they don't have to or need to.

Thankyou for acknowledging that penalty rates cause unemployment.

No they don't - stopping stupidity does not impact employment.

No you've quite correctly pointed out that increasing the price of labour with a penalty rate decreases its demand and a decrease in demand for employment is akin to causing unemployment.... Sad

you've yet to show how lowering the cost of employment will increase employment.

Back to top

When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

IP Logged

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #87 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 9:17pm

Quote:

I didn't know the unemployed wanted to work weekends, without penalty rates. Sad

Every day's a weekend to the unemployed Crookster.... Wink

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:28pm:

you've yet to show how lowering the cost of employment will increase employment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_demand

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Crook Ex Member	Re: Message To Productivity Commission Reply #88 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 10:10pm Swagman, I always thought there were 7 days in a week. With the weekend being the main days people have off. Now if and I say if, you want people to work weekends. Thus the need to pay penalty rates, and rightly so. Even for the unemployed.
Back to top	IP Logged

Grappler Deep State Feller

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 85406
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: Message To Productivity Commission
Reply #89 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 11:26pm

Message To Productivity Commission

... get a life, get a real job, pay some taxes, stop sucking off the public teat, and Eat My Shorts! You are all nothing but a waste of public time and money, and deserve a spell on Manus Island when we turn it into a Repository for Failed Politicians and Their Mates - the New Devil's Island.

Then we'll run a reality TV show about how you all get on........ Politician Survivor! - Maniac Island!!

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged