Australian Politics Forum - Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..

Jovial Monk

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #30 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:07pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

Re the FTAs I said that abbott made a huge mistake saying he wanted the FTAs signed by certain days, the other countries just had to sit there and do nothing and we would have to capitulate to get the damn things signed. That happened.

The politics of trade agreements are another matter. Ministers need to be able to make deals with their foreign counterparts. Putting everything before a partisan parliament doesn't work. Having an opposition shoot them down during the negotiation is not a good way to do business.

What are you talking about? that has NOTHING to do with what I said!

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Johnsmith

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #31 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:09pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 11:59am:

And a deal with China to let us send our workers and services to them.

Let's face it, labour mobility is crucial in a globalized market. This works for us. Any foreign sub manufacturers, for example, who make subs here are going to need to send their experts over.

Trade is increasingly in services, not goods. If you're trading services, people need to move around.

I'm giving Abbott a tick for his trade-agreements.

Companies are already able to send 'experts' over here. Especially is such specialised fields as Submarine building. The China FTA however will allow the Chinese to buy a farm (for example) and then import farmhands or abattoir workers to do the work, at the expense of locals. An exchange of workers can only work if it goes both ways. Whilst on paper China may have agreed to allow some of our workers their, the reality is very few Aussies will go to work in China to earn $2 a day.

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Johnsmith

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #32 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:11pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

Ministers need to be able to make deals with their foreign counterparts. Putting everything before a partisan parliament doesn't work. Having an opposition shoot them down during the negotiation is not a good way to do business.

Ministers do not have carte blanche to do as they wish on these deals.

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
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Karnal

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #33 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:19pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:07pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:04pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

Re the FTAs I said that abbott made a huge mistake saying he wanted the FTAs signed by certain days, the other countries just had to sit there and do nothing and we would have to capitulate to get the damn things signed. That happened.

The politics of trade agreements are another matter. Ministers need to be able to make deals with their foreign counterparts. Putting everything before a partisan parliament doesn't work. Having an opposition shoot them down during the negotiation is not a good way to do business.

What are you talking about? that has NOTHING to do with what I said!

Ah.

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Karnal

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #34 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:28pm

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:09pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 11:59am:

And a deal with China to let us send our workers and services to them.

Let's face it, labour mobility is crucial in a globalized market. This works for us. Any foreign sub manufacturers, for example, who make subs here are going to need to send their experts over.

Trade is increasingly in services, not goods. If you're trading services, people need to move around.

I'm giving Abbott a tick for his trade-agreements.

Companies are already able to send 'experts' over here. Especially is such specialised fields as Submarine building. The China FTA however will allow the Chinese to buy a farm (for example) and then import farmhands or abattoir workers to do the work, at the expense of locals.

I wonder if that's right. If it is, what we're facing is a massive flood of Chinese investment, ownership and cheap labour. This doesn't ring true to me. We already have 457 visas that do a similar thing.

I agree that foreign companies should be made to scout the local labour market first, before flying people in.

Sure ministers don't have carte blanche. But in foreign relations, you can't put every deal before a politicized body, such as a parliament.

The China free trade deal is different, of course. It's a big one. But the ALP are being a little too tricky for their own good here.

This deal should pass.

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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him.. Reply #35 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:42pm Poooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Bolt .
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Karnal

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #36 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:09pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:42pm:

Poooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Bolt . Grin

I love how Bolt blames the media. Bolt has been an active part of Abbott's Pravda. News Ltd owns 70% of print news in Australia.

That's the same News Ltd that impaled two previous prime ministers on the daily front pages of each of its capital city tabloids.

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Johnsmith

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #37 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:38pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

I wonder if that's right. If it is, what we're facing is a massive flood of Chinese investment, ownership and cheap labour. This doesn't ring true to me. We already have 457 visas that do a similar thing.

I agree that foreign companies should be made to scout the local labour market first, before flying people in.

Sure ministers don't have carte blanche. But in foreign relations, you can't put every deal before a politicized body, such as a parliament.

The China free trade deal is different, of course. It's a big one. But the ALP are being a little too tricky for their own good here.

This deal should pass.

and it will. Labor has always said that it supports the deal. It just wants to make sure the Chinese can't bring in cheap foreign labor willy nilly. I'm not sure why the libs are fighting this so hard. It can only make them look bad if they fight for Chinese labour.

I personally don't see labor protecting Aussie jobs as a bad thing, Someone has to stand up for the Aussies.

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

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Aussie

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #38 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:38pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:42pm:

Poooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Bolt . Grin

I love how Bolt blames the media. Bolt has been an active part of Abbott's Pravda. News Ltd owns 70% of print news in Australia.

That's the same News Ltd that impaled two previous prime ministers on the daily front pages of each of its capital city tabloids.

I love the basic thrust of what Bolt wrote which is that Abbot is a great fella because he, Bolt, allowed Abbott to be his friend. Ferk me, what an ego!

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ordinaryguy

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #39 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:58pm

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:38pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

I wonder if that's right. If it is, what we're facing is a massive flood of Chinese investment, ownership and cheap labour. This doesn't ring true to me. We already have 457 visas that do a similar thing.

I agree that foreign companies should be made to scout the local labour market first, before flying people in.

Sure ministers don't have carte blanche. But in foreign relations, you can't put every deal before a politicized body, such as a parliament.

The China free trade deal is different, of course. It's a big one. But the ALP are being a little too tricky for their own good here.

This deal should pass.

and it will. Labor has always said that it supports the deal. It just wants to make sure the Chinese can't bring in cheap foreign labor willy nilly. I'm not sure why the libs are fighting this so hard. It can only make them look bad if they fight for Chinese labour.

I personally don't see labor protecting Aussie jobs as a bad thing, Someone has to stand up for the Aussies.

We can do better than Labor, Labors credibility was lost when their last circus was in charge.

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Karnal

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #40 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:05pm

Aussie wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:42pm:

Poooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Bolt . Grin

I love how Bolt blames the media. Bolt has been an active part of Abbott's Pravda. News Ltd owns 70% of print news in Australia.

That's the same News Ltd that impaled two previous prime ministers on the daily front pages of each of its capital city tabloids.

I love the basic thrust of what Bolt wrote which is that Abbot is a great fella because he, Bolt, allowed Abbott to be his friend. Ferk me, what an ego!

Exactly. Mates. All that guff about conservatives is utter krap.

Bolt's not a conservative, he just has mates.

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #41 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:07pm

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:58pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:38pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

I wonder if that's right. If it is, what we're facing is a massive flood of Chinese investment, ownership and cheap labour. This doesn't ring true to me. We already have 457 visas that do a similar thing.

I agree that foreign companies should be made to scout the local labour market first, before flying people in.

Sure ministers don't have carte blanche. But in foreign relations, you can't put every deal before a politicized body, such as a parliament.

The China free trade deal is different, of course. It's a big one. But the ALP are being a little too tricky for their own good here.

This deal should pass.

and it will. Labor has always said that it supports the deal. It just wants to make sure the Chinese can't bring in cheap foreign labor willy nilly. I'm not sure why the libs are fighting this so hard. It can only make them look bad if they fight for Chinese labour.

I personally don't see labor protecting Aussie jobs as a bad thing, Someone has to stand up for the Aussies.

We can do better than Labor, Labors credibility was lost when their last circus was in charge.

We can do better than Labor

Problem is that you not only have not done better but that you have not done anywhere near as well.

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Karnal

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #42 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:09pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 2:58pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 1:38pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

I wonder if that's right. If it is, what we're facing is a massive flood of Chinese investment, ownership and cheap labour. This doesn't ring true to me. We already have 457 visas that do a similar thing.

I agree that foreign companies should be made to scout the local labour market first, before flying people in.

Sure ministers don't have carte blanche. But in foreign relations, you can't put every deal before a politicized body, such as a parliament.

The China free trade deal is different, of course. It's a big one. But the ALP are being a little too tricky for their own good here.

This deal should pass.

and it will. Labor has always said that it supports the deal. It just wants to make sure the Chinese can't bring in cheap foreign labor willy nilly. I'm not sure why the libs are fighting this so hard. It can only make them look bad if they fight for Chinese labour.

I personally don't see labor protecting Aussie jobs as a bad thing, Someone has to stand up for the Aussies.

We can do better than Labor, Labors credibility was lost when their last circus was in charge.

We can do better than Labor

Problem is that you not only have not done better but that you have not done anywhere near as well.

We can do better than Shorten.

Going back to either Rudd or Gillard would be a huge improvement.

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ordinaryguy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 625 Gender:	Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him.. Reply #43 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:11pm At least they weren't rapists and could speak publicly albeit both clowns that will never run this country again.
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Karnal

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Re: Abbott - You made a Huge mistake dumping him..
Reply #44 - Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:13pm

ordinaryguy wrote on Sep 28^th, 2015 at 3:11pm:

At least they weren't rapists and could speak publicly albeit both clowns that will never run this country again.

Exactly. They could speak very well publicly and were on top of each and every brief. Hopefully, we'll have a similar leader in Turnbull.

we definitely don't have it in Shorten.

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