Australian Politics Forum - ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••

Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #90 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:08pm

cods wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:57pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:31pm:

Kytro wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:23pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:12pm:

You argument is logical. I have never hit a female, but I have represented blokes who have. Invariably, it was never out of "Oh I'm pissed, where's me dinner, cop this bitch." There was always some level of provocation which preceded it.

That does not, and should not make it an acceptable response. If you cannot control your actions, then you need a new toolset.

How come that does not apply to the provocateur? The Law will always allow provocation as a defence (provided extremes are avoided.) If someone is in your face aggressively calling you "a cxxx, lousy husband, lousy parent, lousy lay etc etc etc" you are not expected to be Jesus Christ ~ just a mere mortal.

so you must have won quite a few cases then.. so what happened to the aggressive wife?????....they wouldnt jail him as you claim the provocateur deserved it.. so wouldnt she at least be expected to seek counselling for anger management.. Roll Eyes

or are they sent on their merry way to carry on until their n ext appearance in court.. Roll Eyes

cods, I was going to ignore you but I'll deal with one of your points.

Yeas, they are sent on their merry way to carry on etc etc. That's what happens in Courts, cods, when there is an acquittal. Judge ~ 'Decision made, all you lot can now bugger off. Next case?'

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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #91 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:09pm

red baron wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:08pm:

Physical violence against women is unacceptable unless the woman in question has herself used physical violence to require a physical response to defend one's self.

Verbal abuse doesn't cut it, you can always walk away from verbal abuse.

It seems coppers can't, for example.

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #92 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:12pm

Kytro wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:00pm:

... wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

Often the simplest course of action is the best.
And every time, the best course of action is the one that works.

What is so bad about giving a slap on the cheek that it must be avoided at all costs? I reckon you might have let the threat of violence become too powerful in your mind. Told you it was powerful.

Violence is a destructive force, not just physically, but emotionally as well. One shouldn't discount the psychological effects of violence.

As to directly answer your question, I can't think of any good reason to to slap someone that can't be handled in a better way.

mental violence is worse because you have no evidence...and everyone reacts differently to it..the bwave perp knows this of course.

there is no good reason...only bad reasons and those who live by it are bad people...simple as that.

.there is too much of it happening..and now they murder people in broad daylight.. women are hiding in shelters all over the country from madmen who follow them and torment them.... what NORMAL people do that????>
these women live in terrible places with their kids sick with fear its wrong wrong wrong.. we actually have newly build womens shelters [apartments] in ACT....well fairly
new!
so this isnt going away..

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #93 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:18pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:08pm:

cods wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:57pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:31pm:

Kytro wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:23pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:12pm:

You argument is logical. I have never hit a female, but I have represented blokes who have. Invariably, it was never out of "Oh I'm pissed, where's me dinner, cop this bitch." There was always some level of provocation which preceded it.

That does not, and should not make it an acceptable response. If you cannot control your actions, then you need a new toolset.

How come that does not apply to the provocateur? The Law will always allow provocation as a defence (provided extremes are avoided.) If someone is in your face aggressively calling you "a cxxx, lousy husband, lousy parent, lousy lay etc etc etc" you are not expected to be Jesus Christ ~ just a mere mortal.

so you must have won quite a few cases then.. so what happened to the aggressive wife?????....they wouldnt jail him as you claim the provocateur deserved it.. so wouldnt she at least be expected to seek counselling for anger management.. Roll Eyes

or are they sent on their merry way to carry on until their n ext appearance in court.. Roll Eyes

cods, I was going to ignore you but I'll deal with one of your points.

Yeas, they are sent on their merry way to carry on etc etc. That's what happens in Courts, cods, when there is an acquittal. Judge ~ 'Decision made, all you lot can now bugger off. Next case?'

NO I WONT you are saying.

. " oh she wouldnt let me see my kids" so she provoked me into belting her..

her fault.. thanks judge..

or... well she had the hide to shout at me.. "where the hell you been."..

so I belted her.. than ks judge.,..

if i have told her once I have told her a dozen time " Idon t like pork chops"...so I belted her... thanks judge..

aussies lesson for the day....

dont ask him any too hard questions... it will pizzzzzzzzzzz him off and he cant ban you from this board.. or change anything.....so

how many did you get off. Perry???>.must have been heaps.... everyone is provoked once in a while..... Grin

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38497 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #94 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:23pm If I answered, cods, it would not shut you up. You'd continue being aggressively mouthy.
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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #95 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:30pm

cods wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:53pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:12pm:

... wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:06pm:

The threat of violence is far more powerful than actual violence. But in a society that enforces the mantra "violence is NEVER acceptable" that threat has no power. It's as though one side has been disarmed.

But compounding this, is that the threat of unimaginable violence is now in her hands. If he should lose his temper for a second and lash out, no matter the extent of provocation, she can hurt him more than he could ever hurt her, via the strong arm of the state. A slap on the cheek stings for a few seconds, but a slap from the state can destroy your whole life.

While he's been disarmed, she has nuclear weapons. How can that ever work?

You argument is logical. I have never hit a female, but I have represented blokes who have. Invariably, it was never out of "Oh I'm pissed, where's me dinner, cop this bitch." There was always some level of provocation which preceded it.

REALLY... provocation...wow presumably that also means sticking up for oneself.. Roll Eyes

if a man is taken to court where he needs a solicitor...then you can bettcha he has done it more than once.....very few women take men to court for the one instance....and from what we read the female.... is usually for from being provocative its the last thing she would do to get a beating..

Exactly....she walks on eggshells knowing it sometimes just takes a look in the wrong direction to cop a beating. Victims of domestic violence are usually quivering wrecks by the time the case gets to court.

I would like to see how many bruises or black eyes these provoked guys ever had to be honest... because that sounds so far fetched to be even amusing...

some women are told not to even dare mention they are leaving them.. because of said reaction....

Men that claim provocation could easily log the evidence over a period of time, ask the courts for custody of the children and start again.....it happens.

I advise all women to have an escape fund and a plan.

I've been to women's shelters and I've seen the consequences of physical violence. It's not pretty and no amount of provocation deserves that.

and you claim it is/was quite common

how many cases did you win for them?????

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Gnads

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #96 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:31pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 2:18pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 2:10pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 11:58am:

Unforgiven wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 11:52am:

double plus good wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 10:31am:

In India your people practice a ritual where the widow is cremated with the husband Unforgiven. It's called Sati or Widow Burning. Now that's abuse.

Doubleplusgood must have been a cremated Indian widow in a former life.

He is also posting crap. The practice was outlawed in the 1800s.

Yeah well this similar Indian DV hasn't ceased ......

Quote:

Bride burning or bride-burning is a form of domestic violence practised in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and other countries located on or around the Indian subcontinent (but not Sri Lanka). A category of dowry death, bride-burning occurs when a young woman is murdered by her husband or his family for her family's refusal to pay additional dowry. The wife is typically doused with kerosene, gasoline, or other flammable liquid, and set alight, leading to death by fire.[1][2] Kerosene is most often used as the fuel.[3] It is most common in India and has been a major problem there since at least 1993.[4]

This crime has been treated as culpable homicide and, if proven, is usually accordingly punished by up to lifelong imprisonment or death.[1] Bride burning has been recognized as an important public health problem in India,[5] accounting for around 2,500 deaths per year in the country.[5] In 1995, Time Magazine reported that dowry deaths in India increased from around 400 a year in the early 1980s to around 5,800 a year by the middle of the 1990s.[6] A year later, CNN ran a story saying that every year police receive more than 2,500 reports of bride burning.[7] According to Indian National Crime Record Bureau, there were 1,948 convictions and 3,876 acquittals in dowry death cases in 2008.[8]

Nothing similar about it whatsoever. In the case of Sati, it is a widow suiciding on her dead husband's pyre. You are talking about an entirely different crime.

Suttee/Sati wasn't always voluntary suicide .....

& both were/are classed as a form of DV.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38497 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #97 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:35pm ..and both were made illegal in the 1800s.
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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #98 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:39pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:30pm:

cods wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:53pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:12pm:

... wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:06pm:

The threat of violence is far more powerful than actual violence. But in a society that enforces the mantra "violence is NEVER acceptable" that threat has no power. It's as though one side has been disarmed.

But compounding this, is that the threat of unimaginable violence is now in her hands. If he should lose his temper for a second and lash out, no matter the extent of provocation, she can hurt him more than he could ever hurt her, via the strong arm of the state. A slap on the cheek stings for a few seconds, but a slap from the state can destroy your whole life.

While he's been disarmed, she has nuclear weapons. How can that ever work?

You argument is logical. I have never hit a female, but I have represented blokes who have. Invariably, it was never out of "Oh I'm pissed, where's me dinner, cop this bitch." There was always some level of provocation which preceded it.

REALLY... provocation...wow presumably that also means sticking up for oneself.. Roll Eyes

if a man is taken to court where he needs a solicitor...then you can bettcha he has done it more than once.....very few women take men to court for the one instance....and from what we read the female.... is usually for from being provocative its the last thing she would do to get a beating..

Exactly....she walks on eggshells knowing it sometimes just takes a look in the wrong direction to cop a beating. Victims of domestic violence are usually quivering wrecks by the time the case gets to court.

I would like to see how many bruises or black eyes these provoked guys ever had to be honest... because that sounds so far fetched to be even amusing...

some women are told not to even dare mention they are leaving them.. because of said reaction....

Men that claim provocation could easily log the evidence over a period of time, ask the courts for custody of the children and start again.....it happens.

I advise all women to have an escape fund and a plan.

I've been to women's shelters and I've seen the consequences of physical violence. It's not pretty and no amount of provocation deserves that.

and you claim it is/was quite common

how many cases did you win for them?????

I'd like to respond to that, but I do now know who said what....and even if I did, how does one respond accurately to such a mad mix?

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Gnads

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #99 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:40pm

Cods on the issue of Islamic violence bought about by journalistic critique or publishing of satirical cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad .....

your view was that to prevent such violence - knowing Muslims propensity to violence on these issues ...

was that they/we/the west should not provoke them by doing so.

An oft used quote you used was "if you poke the bear often enough" what do you expect.

Why don't you apply that very same logic to women who are the constant provocateur in many DV cases?

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29116 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #100 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:42pm Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:35pm: ..and both were made illegal in the 1800s. So why is there still so much Bride Burning going on?
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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #101 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:43pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:42pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:35pm:

..and both were made illegal in the 1800s.

So why is there still so much Bride Burning going on?

Bride burning is not widow burning.

I used the expression 'both' because Suttee and Sati are different words meaning the same ~ widow on dead husband's pyre.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #102 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:43pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:30pm:

cods wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:53pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:12pm:

... wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 3:06pm:

The threat of violence is far more powerful than actual violence. But in a society that enforces the mantra "violence is NEVER acceptable" that threat has no power. It's as though one side has been disarmed.

But compounding this, is that the threat of unimaginable violence is now in her hands. If he should lose his temper for a second and lash out, no matter the extent of provocation, she can hurt him more than he could ever hurt her, via the strong arm of the state. A slap on the cheek stings for a few seconds, but a slap from the state can destroy your whole life.

While he's been disarmed, she has nuclear weapons. How can that ever work?

You argument is logical. I have never hit a female, but I have represented blokes who have. Invariably, it was never out of "Oh I'm pissed, where's me dinner, cop this bitch." There was always some level of provocation which preceded it.

REALLY... provocation...wow presumably that also means sticking up for oneself.. Roll Eyes

if a man is taken to court where he needs a solicitor...then you can bettcha he has done it more than once.....very few women take men to court for the one instance....and from what we read the female.... is usually for from being provocative its the last thing she would do to get a beating..

Exactly....she walks on eggshells knowing it sometimes just takes a look in the wrong direction to cop a beating. Victims of domestic violence are usually quivering wrecks by the time the case gets to court.

I would like to see how many bruises or black eyes these provoked guys ever had to be honest... because that sounds so far fetched to be even amusing...

some women are told not to even dare mention they are leaving them.. because of said reaction....

Men that claim provocation could easily log the evidence over a period of time, ask the courts for custody of the children and start again.....it happens.

I advise all women to have an escape fund and a plan.

I've been to women's shelters and I've seen the consequences of physical violence. It's not pretty and no amount of provocation deserves that.

and you claim it is/was quite common

how many cases did you win for them?????

I'd like to respond to that, but I do now know who said what....and even if I did, how does one respond accurately to such a mad mix?

Mine is a response to cods (blue print)

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #103 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:58pm

I'm not coming into the cods' mouthy provocation. Like this:

Quote:

and from what we read the female.... is usually for from being provocative its the last thing she would do to get a beating..

Problem with that is that there are many people out there who reckon they can be as verbally abusive as they like, and there will be no response of one kind or another. It is human nature to push envelopes, and sometimes ~ tough tit ~ you come second.

As for your comment about Ladies in Refugees showing signs...well, I have no doubt they do. As a Cabbie, I often pick them up from the Refuge for some reason or other, and I have never ever had one in the Cab who was not a grub Mother yelling abuse at her kids for one reason or an other before, or during or immediately after the journey.

Further, all you are hearing is their (probably) embellished version.

Next time you are at the Refuge, ask the Managers how often and why they eject Women who are there.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #104 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:09pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:58pm:

I'm not coming into the cods' mouthy provocation. Like this:

Quote:

and from what we read the female.... is usually for from being provocative its the last thing she would do to get a beating..

Problem with that is that there are many people out there who reckon they can be as verbally abusive as they like, and there will be no response of one kind or another. It is human nature to push envelopes, and sometimes ~ tough tit ~ you come second.

As for your comment about Ladies in Refugees showing signs...well, I have no doubt they do. As a Cabbie, I often pick them up from the Refuge for some reason or other, and I have never ever had one in the Cab who was not a grub Mother yelling abuse at her kids for one reason or an other before, or during or immediately after the journey.

Further, all you are hearing is their (probably) embellished version.

Next time you are at the Refuge, ask the Managers how often and why they eject Women who are there.

I'm no longer involved in women's refuges, but if I were I'd ask your question, I'd also ask how violent spouses/partners get the address (that is supposedly secret) and come around at night trying to gain entry.

It must be hard for them when their punching bag leaves.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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