Australian Politics Forum - ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••

Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #120 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:40pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:36pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 8:47am:

It's high time we here at OzPol brought this skeleton out of the closet.

???? What a curious comment...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1429080762

That wasn't really too hard to locate...

Excuse me Phem, that other DV thread wasn't started by Lisa, so she couldn't tell Aussie to stop wrecking her thread.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #121 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:41pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 4:40pm:

Cods on the issue of Islamic violence bought about by journalistic critique or publishing of satirical cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad .....

your view was that to prevent such violence - knowing Muslims propensity to violence on these issues ...

was that they/we/the west should not provoke them by doing so.

An oft used quote you used was "if you poke the bear often enough" what do you expect.

Why don't you apply that very same logic to women who are the constant provocateur in many DV cases?

oh I guess its too hard for you to se the actula difference in ISIS chopping off heads and gunning people down with AK47s and what we laughingly call DOMESTIC VIOLENCE>. I guess to some with your IQ they are basically EQUAL..

well not only do I have no answer for such a bizarre comparison but you never do make any sense to me....

you should chat to your mate aussie he and you would have the same level of understanding and and comprehension... I am sure you hav e saved that quote up for months waiting for this thread....what a shame the STARK DIFFERENCE IS BEYOND YOU... Angry

maybe you need to come face to face with some who experience DOMESTIC VIOLENCE then you may not be so flippant.... Angry

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #122 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:44pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:37pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:19pm:

Quote:

I'd also ask how violent spouses/partners get the address (that is supposedly secret) and come around at night trying to gain entry.

It is easy to get the address. So easy. Cabbies know where they are, as will everyone who has a relation, friend or associate who has been there. If I wanted to know where they all were on the Sunshine Coast, I'd get a female mate to feign a need for a Refuge, and Bob would be my Uncle.

And......if any male ever got even close to the inner sanctum of a Women's Refuge (....hmm.......hmmmmmm......hmmmmmmm???) they would be beaten senseless by the resident Sisterhood.

That's right, cabbies have to know because quite often they are the initial escape vehicle.

not male drivers pansi....they talk and they would tell.. I have only ever heard of female drivers...

this business female refuges is now run by the govt,,

can you see any govt handing out special help call phones... only to have male driven taxis pulling up at the front doors it wont happen... aussie is dreaming he thinks he is right ...blimey dont we all know that...

must be a slow night in relationships.. unless he has one eye on both...

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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #123 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:45pm

Oh dear......once more into the abyss I leap. You'd reckon by now I'd learn, but....nah.

Quote:

you tell me.. I have never heard of it happening..

It happens regularly cods. Go to one and ask.

Quote:

it wouldnt happen I was only ever in ONE I donated toys and gifts a friend and I had hand made we were allowed in only on strict secrecy the women I saw were helpless one lady picked up one of the golls I had knitted and hugged it the manger lady said would I mind if she kept that....... how dare you I bet you have never even been close to one of these places..

Show me where I said you have never been close or even to one of these places.

Quote:

yet you take money off of men who claim they were provoked into beating a women...

Yeas, that what people who want a Lawyer do....they pay for the service. Should it be free, cods?

Quote:

did you bother yourself to take a look at one of the women who PROVOKED her MAN into beating her??? well did you..????..... I bet that gave you both a good laugh..

Being a Lawyer in Court rarely involves a laugh at anyone cods. We do the job, professionally. No emotion. The whole point of the Trial was that the Lady was hit...hence the bruises.....now comes the defence of provocation

Quote:

there is no way a male cabdriver would be called to a womens refuge...

QED.

Quote:

you are like someone else on here you live in an im aginary world...and think you kn ow everything..

I certainly do not know everything cods, but I have not lied about myself. No need.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #124 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:45pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Quote:

Physical violence is NOT an appropriate response ever.

It is. While it is not the only way, it is a legal way to respond to provocation.

Horseshit... Grin

It is illegal to physically assault someone - that would not even constitute self defense.

I would have expected you to know this.

By justifying the use of violence as being "provoked" all you do is justify the perpetrators actions.

I thought you could only respond in a like manner.

Yelling competition.....no touching

push and shove competition.....no weapons.

violent altercation using stuff that hurts.....chairs, irons, frypans etc....no sharp instruments

violent altercation weapons....knives and sharp instruments.....no firearms

violent altercation......firearms

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #125 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:49pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Quote:

Physical violence is NOT an appropriate response ever.

It is. While it is not the only way, it is a legal way to respond to provocation.

Horseshit... Grin

It is illegal to physically assault someone - that would not even constitute self defense.

I would have expected you to know this.

By justifying the use of violence as being "provoked" all you do is justify the perpetrators actions.

Are you arguing that provocation is not not an absolute defence to assault?

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #126 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:50pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Quote:

Physical violence is NOT an appropriate response ever.

It is. While it is not the only way, it is a legal way to respond to provocation.

Horseshit... Grin

It is illegal to physically assault someone - that would not even constitute self defense.

I would have expected you to know this.

By justifying the use of violence as being "provoked" all you do is justify the perpetrators actions.

how dare you

if aussie says the perp was PROVOKED aussie says its A.OK..with the law society..

he knows the law inside out... and he believes its 100% right ..

as most women in refuges deserve to be there with their feral kids that all scream and swear 24/7..

he wont even let them in his cad they are so bad...

please dont argue with aussie he kn ows everything.. he still hasnt told me how many bashers he got off with wife bashing because they were provoked...

Wink

I would love to know as I am sure he would have been the Go TO man in his day..

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #127 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:52pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:49pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Quote:

Physical violence is NOT an appropriate response ever.

It is. While it is not the only way, it is a legal way to respond to provocation.

Horseshit... Grin

It is illegal to physically assault someone - that would not even constitute self defense.

I would have expected you to know this.

By justifying the use of violence as being "provoked" all you do is justify the perpetrators actions.

Are you arguing that provocation is not not an absolute defence to assault?

Yeah, actually I was, but, thinking it through further, I can acknowledge that it could be "argued" to be a defense.

I would be pretty amazed though, given the difference in force used, if the defense actually got up....

That is what I am saying, at least now...

The only possible "provocation" I could conceive of maybe getting up to the bar (as in benchmark not courtroom etc.) would be proving that the alleged victim actually said the words, "go on, hit me then..." Cause that would literally then be asking for it wouldn't it?

(Edit to clarify)

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #128 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:54pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:49pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Quote:

Physical violence is NOT an appropriate response ever.

It is. While it is not the only way, it is a legal way to respond to provocation.

Horseshit... Grin

It is illegal to physically assault someone - that would not even constitute self defense.

I would have expected you to know this.

By justifying the use of violence as being "provoked" all you do is justify the perpetrators actions.

Are you arguing that provocation is not not an absolute defence to assault?

NO you are arguing it is OK if its DOMESTIC VIOLENCE which is what this thread is about....

we are not talking about ASSAULT....if someone pushed me I would likely push back...

you obviously have never seen a women b ashed repeatedly in a DOMESTIC VIOLENCE case.. so stop pretending you have,...

and stop twisting this topic to fit in with your bizarre claims..

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #129 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:57pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:49pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Quote:

Physical violence is NOT an appropriate response ever.

It is. While it is not the only way, it is a legal way to respond to provocation.

Horseshit... Grin

It is illegal to physically assault someone - that would not even constitute self defense.

I would have expected you to know this.

By justifying the use of violence as being "provoked" all you do is justify the perpetrators actions.

Are you arguing that provocation is not not an absolute defence to assault?

Yeah, actually I was, but, thinking it through further, I can acknowledge that it could be "argued" to be a defense.

I would be pretty amazed though, given the difference in force used, if the defense actually got up....

That is what I am saying, at least now...

The only possible "provocation" I could conceive of maybe getting up to the bar (as in benchmark not courtroom etc.) would be proving that the alleged victim actually said the words, "go on, hit me then..." Cause that would literally then be asking for it wouldn't it?

(Edit to clarify)

wow what a cave ion.. aussie is trying to make his claioms RIGHT its all plausible that women in domestic violence case mostly ask for it.. well done phem.. if they ask for it... like say well HIT ME THEN..

and god help her if she says pull the trigger then...

he was provoked he is a hero..thank you your honor.

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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #130 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:58pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:52pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:49pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:39pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Quote:

Physical violence is NOT an appropriate response ever.

It is. While it is not the only way, it is a legal way to respond to provocation.

Horseshit... Grin

It is illegal to physically assault someone - that would not even constitute self defense.

I would have expected you to know this.

By justifying the use of violence as being "provoked" all you do is justify the perpetrators actions.

Are you arguing that provocation is not not an absolute defence to assault?

Yeah, actually I was, but, thinking it through further, I can acknowledge that it could be "argued" to be a defense.

I would be pretty amazed though, given the difference in force used, if the defense actually got up....

That is what I am saying, at least now...

The only possible "provocation" I could conceive of maybe getting up to the bar (as in benchmark not courtroom etc.) would be proving that the alleged victim actually said the words, "go on, hit me then..." Cause that would literally then be asking for it wouldn't it?

(Edit to clarify)

From the Qld Criminal Code:

Quote:

CRIMINAL CODE 1899 - SECT 269
269 Defence of provocation

(1) A person is not criminally responsible for an assault committed upon a person who gives the person provocation for the assault, if the person is in fact deprived by the provocation of the power of self-control, and acts upon it on the sudden and before there is time for the person's passion to cool, and if the force used is not disproportionate to the provocation and is not intended, and is not such as is likely, to cause death or grievous bodily harm.

(2) Whether any particular act or insult is such as to be likely to deprive an ordinary person of the power of self-control and to induce the ordinary person to assault the person by whom the act or insult is done or offered, and whether, in any particular case, the person provoked was actually deprived by the provocation of the power of self-control, and whether any force used is or is not disproportionate to the provocation, are questions of fact.

Is that enough?

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #131 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:59pm

Actually Cods, it's kind of a helpful thing to consider how a perpetrator might argue their defense, if you think about that for a moment...

The court process after all involves ALL parties.

In his own way, Aussie might actually be offering a bit of a service. Let's face it, court is often worse for the victim - if they can be reasonably prepared for the worst of it, that has to help sustain them.

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #132 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 6:03pm

So, actually, the burden of proof then lies in the alleged perpetrator's loss of self control...

Now I have to wonder if that also applies here in NSW...

Also, are there any Federal laws regarding this?

So, sure, you could argue it, however, you still have a pretty high tide mark there regarding burden of proof, well depending on judge I suppose...

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #133 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 6:06pm And of course, I see the double edged sword for that law, for example if a long term victim of DV was to off the perpetrator... Law tries to balance, we just don't always see it. Plus it doesn't always get it right.
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Aussie

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #134 - Oct 1^st, 2015 at 6:10pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 6:03pm:

So, actually, the burden of proof then lies in the alleged perpetrator's loss of self control...

Now I have to wonder if that also applies here in NSW...

Also, are there any Federal laws regarding this?

So, sure, you could argue it, however, you still have a pretty high tide mark there regarding burden of proof, well depending on judge I suppose...

No, the Crown always bears the burden of proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. They must satisfy the Jury that, beyond reasonable doubt, the accused (among many other factors) did not act as provoked. Here is some more relevant information about provocation:

Quote:

CRIMINAL CODE 1899 - SECT 268
268 Provocation

(1) The term provocation, used with reference to an offence of which an assault is an element, means and includes, except as hereinafter stated, any wrongful act or insult of such a nature as to be likely, when done to an ordinary person, or in the presence of an ordinary person to another person who is under the person's immediate care, or to whom the person stands in a conjugal, parental, filial, or fraternal, relation, or in the relation of master or servant, to deprive the person of the power of self-control, and to induce the person to assault the person by whom the act or insult is done or offered.

(2) When such an act or insult is done or offered by one person to another, or in the presence of another to a person who is under the immediate care of that other, or to whom the latter stands in any such relation as aforesaid, the former is said to give to the latter provocation for an assault.

(3) A lawful act is not provocation to any person for an assault.

(4) An act which a person does in consequence of incitement given by another person in order to induce the person to do the act, and thereby to furnish an excuse for committing an assault, is not provocation to that other person for an assault.

(5) An arrest which is unlawful is not necessarily provocation for an assault, but it may be evidence of provocation to a person who knows of the illegality.

I have to say that I am gobsmacked at the level of ignorance on such very basic matters, but that is probably my fault expecting people to know some fundamental Law. I'll keep that in mind from now on.

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