Australian Politics Forum - Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools

mariacostel

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #300 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:02pm

aquascoot wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:42am:

the academic stuff taught at schools is not as important as the "real social dynamic"

i havent used algebra or calculus in the last few days, but the main thing schools teach is hopefully how to "think"

and hopefully the teachers are not caught up in "group think"

i would be wary of home schooling , if for no other reason then that you want to expose the child to as many "independant' thinkers as possible and to try to get them out of group think.

2 parents probably cant do that .

but are the private school teachers more "independant" then the public school teachers.

again , probably not, but a private school parent is "invested' in the outcome.
he's got his money on the line and that always leads to a better outcome.

if you spent $2 on a diet , you probably wont do as well as someone who spent $800 on a gym membership, $1000 on new clothes, $200 on diet pills, $500 on a nutri-bullett.

once people front the cash, they mentally enter a space where results become more important to them.

It's important that students are taught how to think, but rather worthless if they also cannot read, write and master the basics. And that is before we prepare kids for actual careers.

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mariacostel

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #301 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:34pm

aquascoot wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:42am:

the academic stuff taught at schools is not as important as the "real social dynamic"

i havent used algebra or calculus in the last few days, but the main thing schools teach is hopefully how to "think"

and hopefully the teachers are not caught up in "group think"

i would be wary of home schooling , if for no other reason then that you want to expose the child to as many "independant' thinkers as possible and to try to get them out of group think.

2 parents probably cant do that .

but are the private school teachers more "independant" then the public school teachers.

again , probably not, but a private school parent is "invested' in the outcome.
he's got his money on the line and that always leads to a better outcome.

if you spent $2 on a diet , you probably wont do as well as someone who spent $800 on a gym membership, $1000 on new clothes, $200 on diet pills, $500 on a nutri-bullett.

once people front the cash, they mentally enter a space where results become more important to them.

It is very true and the obverse is the same. Every time I hear some complaining parent carrying on about having to pay $100 for their kids education, all I hear is a parent who doesn't value education.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #302 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:59pm

Setanta wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 9:22pm:

Ah yes - well my graduating class - the A class and final year matriculation - the one I entered at 14.5 years and finished at 15.5 - had all of seven students. Four were girls, and three boys, all at least a year older than I was.

As a child prodigy I trump you all.

Counting you as one of the boys... How'd you get on? Wink

Well - I had the highest IQ in the group - a cause for a very startled 'teacher's pet' - but my home life was dismal - we were starved, beaten, neglected, and generally put down in every way by bad parenting, so, in direct contrast with primary school where I leaped a class and was school dux alongside my older brother in Year Six (he hated that) - I struggled to stay afloat.

Abuse and emotional deprivation can do a hell of a lot to a very sensitive kid, as my brother's life can testify.

I was supposed to go to THE selective high school, and my aunt and uncle lived just up the road from it and offered to have me there, but my father wouldn't have a bar of it, and instead sent us to the worst school in the city - he had this strange idea that brutality would 'toughen people up' for the life ahead.

There may have been some merit in his position, he grew up in the Depression and then did WWII including being a jumpmaster for the US 187th Airborne Brigade at Nadzab, but I found that the opposite with my own children proved that they can weather the storms of life better from NOT enduring brutality in any way.

I've said it before - I enlisted in the Army at seventeen and got my first good pair of shoes, plus food - more than I could eat.

An absolute disgrace, my family, and some in it should be ashamed for what they did.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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mariacostel

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #303 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 8:19pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:59pm:

Setanta wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 9:22pm:

Ah yes - well my graduating class - the A class and final year matriculation - the one I entered at 14.5 years and finished at 15.5 - had all of seven students. Four were girls, and three boys, all at least a year older than I was.

As a child prodigy I trump you all.

Counting you as one of the boys... How'd you get on? Wink

Well - I had the highest IQ in the group - a cause for a very startled 'teacher's pet' - but my home life was dismal - we were starved, beaten, neglected, and generally put down in every way by bad parenting, so, in direct contrast with primary school where I leaped a class and was school dux alongside my older brother in Year Six (he hated that) - I struggled to stay afloat.

Abuse and emotional deprivation can do a hell of a lot to a very sensitive kid, as my brother's life can testify.

I was supposed to go to THE selective high school, and my aunt and uncle lived just up the road from it and offered to have me there, but my father wouldn't have a bar of it, and instead sent us to the worst school in the city - he had this strange idea that brutality would 'toughen people up' for the life ahead.

There may have been some merit in his position, he grew up in the Depression and then did WWII including being a jumpmaster for the US 187th Airborne Brigade at Nadzab, but I found that the opposite with my own children proved that they can weather the storms of life better from NOT enduring brutality in any way.

I've said it before - I enlisted in the Army at seventeen and got my first good pair of shoes, plus food - more than I could eat.

An absolute disgrace, my family, and some in it should be ashamed for what they did.

Reading many of your posts and the inability you show in understanding so many basic concepts I very much doubt you were a genius. That said, your home life sounds awful. You have done well since.

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85400 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools Reply #304 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 8:20pm Traditions of the Private Schools? Scum, Buggary, and The Cash!
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Karnal

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #305 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 8:21pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:02pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:42am:

the academic stuff taught at schools is not as important as the "real social dynamic"

i havent used algebra or calculus in the last few days, but the main thing schools teach is hopefully how to "think"

and hopefully the teachers are not caught up in "group think"

i would be wary of home schooling , if for no other reason then that you want to expose the child to as many "independant' thinkers as possible and to try to get them out of group think.

2 parents probably cant do that .

but are the private school teachers more "independant" then the public school teachers.

again , probably not, but a private school parent is "invested' in the outcome.
he's got his money on the line and that always leads to a better outcome.

if you spent $2 on a diet , you probably wont do as well as someone who spent $800 on a gym membership, $1000 on new clothes, $200 on diet pills, $500 on a nutri-bullett.

once people front the cash, they mentally enter a space where results become more important to them.

It's important that students are taught how to think, but rather worthless if they also cannot read, write and master the basics. And that is before we prepare kids for actual careers.

With subjects that don’t exist anymore.

Perhaps we can bring back jobs that don’t exist anymore too, eh?

How about, instead of funding pensions for rich retirees, we fund tea ladies and telex operators and typing pools?

Remember, dear, Australia is open for business.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96661	Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools Reply #306 - Oct 12^th, 2015 at 8:24pm Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 8:20pm: Traditions of the Private Schools? Scum, Buggary, and The Cash! Apparently Maria doesn’t have children, Grappler, so we don’t have to worry about that.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59372 Here Gender:	Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools Reply #307 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 6:30am Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools Yes, much better than the other options.
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aquascoot

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #308 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 6:54am

there are some real gems of teachers in the private sector.
i think, private school teachers will often come from that "giving' christian mindset and public school teachers will often come from that "me me me" teachers union mindset.

i can remember a teacher at my daughters school who , for no extra pay, ran the hockey for a 1000 student school. he was there training til 7 pm most nights. it took up nearly every saturday and sunday. he went away with teams. his wife was always with him. his 2 daughters came back to coach after they finished school.

i could give many many stories of inspirational private school teachers. i just never heard any of that stuff from friends with kids in public schools.
their kids always had relief teachers because Mrs Bloggs was off on stress leave again.

There seems incredible 'esprit de corps " in the private sector and their seemed a real malaise in the public schools.

id be interested in how many teachers are off on stress leave in each sector.
i'd bet its much higher in the public.

these things snowball, beaten down teachers, students who play up, headmasters who have lost control, low teacher morale, more misbehaviour due to non mindfulness in the classroom.
it just seems a recipe for disaster...the public school model.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #309 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 7:03am

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 11:56am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:45am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Oct 10^th, 2015 at 10:00pm:

People with Master's Degrees need to apply for a pension now? Wow - something failing badly in the education and employment systems.........

Now Longy - he was studying for a Ph.D in mathematics.. that explained his brilliant ripostes to any suggestion that LNP mathematics was flawed or biased.. or simply spin...... he could do that by name-calling and flubbing along about how the other party could not understand - he's that good!

I believe he was also going to be applying for an aged pension.... education is not all it seems..... it seems..... Shocked

AS you do so often, this statement is confused and pointless. A Master's Degree does not come with a bucket of money for life or did you not know that?

That's because practically everyone has one these days.

Grappler tends to conflate two disparate issues and presume a connection that does not exist. His mind not only goes off on tangents, but some of those tangents are in other universes.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #310 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 7:05am

Aussie wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 8:39pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 8:12pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:18pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

Quote:

Do you really think schools don't offer science and maths any more? And I don't know if they were EVER mandatory subjects in upper high school. Other than English I am unaware of them ever being mandatory.

True, you don't know but that dose not stop you from dumb arse making assertions of fact. I'll tell you a fact. Back in my day, what was then called Maths 1 and Maths 11 were mandatory in years 11 and 12, as was physics and chemistry ~ as was English. The only elective involved a choice between German, French or Technical Drawing (which was a thing basically about design drafting.)

Quote:

It seems rather astonishing when discussing topics like this to realise that perhaps very few of you went through high school which is why you are all so astonishingly ignorant of some things relating to education.

Have a look in here.

http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/8378396/8378396/Concert-Framed-Mirror-wit...

What century did you go to school? it certainly wasn't this or the last one. Or I am guessing you went to school in Queensland where 20th century teaching methods were yet to arrive.

Yeas, in Queensland, and I've already posted the list of what (some of) my Year 12 matriculating cohort even eventually became. That list did not suit your agenda so you had to resort to.....ummm....what is it........adhominem something or other?

And completely without proof and not even willing to state the YEAR of this supposed genius class.

Would it make a pinch of shyts difference if I did? Is that all you need to accept what I have said as the truth?

Actually...yeah.

School name and year thanks.

Or you're full of BS. Again.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #311 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 7:08am

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 8:12pm:

Setanta wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:53pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:17pm:

Setanta wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 6:53pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

I wasn't aware that Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics were considered 'trades'. Who taught your kids these subjects?

Way to miss the point. I shared rather briefly how we had our kids educated. I was talking about our kids and only the programmer did physics and upper math, none did chemistry, they were mainly trade related. But since you bring it up, my plumber mate that I think you mentioned in another post happens to have a Harvard educated Math teacher brother that is also a mate of mine, not that you'll believe it, it wouldn't serve your purpose.

Hell, why even believe we home schooled? Then there's the lovely old lady that lives behind us and down two houses that teaches Math at SCU who said, "anytime!" when we asked if middle son could ask her if he had trouble with anything at one of our neighbourly BBQs.

Are your friends not of all makes and sizes? Do you have any? Are you the shining beacon amongst them?

edit: Just because you home school doesn't mean there are no teachers either, they have one for every subject but it's more like UNI as there are few classes and most must be accomplished by the student and you contact the teacher when you need to.

Well it wouldn't be a home-schooling parent if they weren't super-defensive and prickly. Yes, I oppose home-schooling. If knowing a few people with education in maths and physics were enough,* why do we even employ teachers? Did those people spend 4-5 hours a week with your kid?

I oppose home-schooling because the vast majority of parents are hopelessly unqualified to do so and those that do (sorry for the generalisation) tend to be those who probably couldn't pass year 8 now.

We have schools for a reason and the reasons for homeschooling are few and even less are valid.

Prickly because of a supercilious judgemental attitude? Who would have thunk.

*So their friends can use them to educate their kids. Did they need to spend 4-5 hours a week with him? I'm sure you're psychic.

Homeschoolers.... Heard it all before and seen some of the messes.

Someone mention home schooling?

2 observations :

1. Parents : control freak nutters with mental health issues

2. Kids : emotionally unbalanced and socially inept.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #312 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 7:11am

Setanta wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 6:53pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

I wasn't aware that Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics were considered 'trades'. Who taught your kids these subjects?

Way to miss the point. I shared rather briefly how we had our kids educated. I was talking about our kids and only the programmer did physics and upper math, none did chemistry, they were mainly trade related.

But since you bring it up, my plumber mate that I think you mentioned in another post happens to have a Harvard educated Math teacher brother that is also a mate of mine, not that you'll believe it, it wouldn't serve your purpose.

Hell, why even believe we home schooled? Then there's the lovely old lady that lives behind us and down two houses that teaches Math at SCU who said, "anytime!" when we asked if middle son could ask her if he had trouble with anything at one of our neighbourly BBQs.

Are your friends not of all makes and sizes? Do you have any? Are you the shining beacon amongst them?

edit: Just because you home school doesn't mean there are no teachers either, they have one for every subject but it's more like UNI as there are few classes and most must be accomplished by the student and you contact the teacher when you need to.

Setanta, give it a rest.

Your BS is getting beyond ridiculous now.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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mariacostel

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #313 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 8:20am

Karnal wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 8:21pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:02pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 12^th, 2015 at 6:42am:

the academic stuff taught at schools is not as important as the "real social dynamic"

i havent used algebra or calculus in the last few days, but the main thing schools teach is hopefully how to "think"

and hopefully the teachers are not caught up in "group think"

i would be wary of home schooling , if for no other reason then that you want to expose the child to as many "independant' thinkers as possible and to try to get them out of group think.

2 parents probably cant do that .

but are the private school teachers more "independant" then the public school teachers.

again , probably not, but a private school parent is "invested' in the outcome.
he's got his money on the line and that always leads to a better outcome.

if you spent $2 on a diet , you probably wont do as well as someone who spent $800 on a gym membership, $1000 on new clothes, $200 on diet pills, $500 on a nutri-bullett.

once people front the cash, they mentally enter a space where results become more important to them.

It's important that students are taught how to think, but rather worthless if they also cannot read, write and master the basics. And that is before we prepare kids for actual careers.

With subjects that don’t exist anymore.

Perhaps we can bring back jobs that don’t exist anymore too, eh?

How about, instead of funding pensions for rich retirees, we fund tea ladies and telex operators and typing pools?

Remember, dear, Australia is open for business.

Are you still seriously trying to suggest that Maths, Physics and Chemistry are not taught in schools now, troll?

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mariacostel

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Re: Sending Children To Private Or Public Schools
Reply #314 - Oct 13^th, 2015 at 8:22am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 13^th, 2015 at 7:08am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 8:12pm:

Setanta wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:53pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:17pm:

Setanta wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 6:53pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

I wasn't aware that Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics were considered 'trades'. Who taught your kids these subjects?

Way to miss the point. I shared rather briefly how we had our kids educated. I was talking about our kids and only the programmer did physics and upper math, none did chemistry, they were mainly trade related. But since you bring it up, my plumber mate that I think you mentioned in another post happens to have a Harvard educated Math teacher brother that is also a mate of mine, not that you'll believe it, it wouldn't serve your purpose.

Hell, why even believe we home schooled? Then there's the lovely old lady that lives behind us and down two houses that teaches Math at SCU who said, "anytime!" when we asked if middle son could ask her if he had trouble with anything at one of our neighbourly BBQs.

Are your friends not of all makes and sizes? Do you have any? Are you the shining beacon amongst them?

edit: Just because you home school doesn't mean there are no teachers either, they have one for every subject but it's more like UNI as there are few classes and most must be accomplished by the student and you contact the teacher when you need to.

Well it wouldn't be a home-schooling parent if they weren't super-defensive and prickly. Yes, I oppose home-schooling. If knowing a few people with education in maths and physics were enough,* why do we even employ teachers? Did those people spend 4-5 hours a week with your kid?

I oppose home-schooling because the vast majority of parents are hopelessly unqualified to do so and those that do (sorry for the generalisation) tend to be those who probably couldn't pass year 8 now.

We have schools for a reason and the reasons for homeschooling are few and even less are valid.

Prickly because of a supercilious judgemental attitude? Who would have thunk.

*So their friends can use them to educate their kids. Did they need to spend 4-5 hours a week with him? I'm sure you're psychic.

Homeschoolers.... Heard it all before and seen some of the messes.

Someone mention home schooling?

2 observations :

1. Parents : control freak nutters with mental health issues

2. Kids : emotionally unbalanced and socially inept.

Not very subtle, but still rather accurate. I've not seen a home schooling parent yet who I would not describe as 'troubled'.

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