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Sir lastnail

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Re: Tesla
Reply #90 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:12pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 9:31am:

If I had my choice, I would buy a Tesla. I don't, but it is likely that person of my socio-economic status would not have been able to buy a Model T Ford in 1910. That didn't stop Ford changing the way we get around. Criticisms of Tesla look like nit-picking to me.

From what I understand it is a great car. That's not the point. It is unaffordable by the vast majority of people and it compares unfavourably with a mid-sized family car in almost every aspect other than performance which for a family car is relatively unimportant. I grant it looks rather nice. But it is still $100,000 and it is still not much use for outback travel with vast distances involved. IN a city though it would be superb. Make it the price of a Camry and I will buy one!

For some reason, nail takes offence at pointing out its unaffordability.

There's plenty of unaffordable cars depending on who you are so what is your point ? It's all relative to a persons financial situation.

If Tesla can run a profitable business selling "unaffordable" cars then that is infinitely better than Ford and Holden going out of business trying to sell "affordable" cars !!

Have you priced a BMW lately. Even their cheapest offerings are unaffordable by most peoples standards and yet they still sell here !!

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issuevoter

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Re: Tesla
Reply #91 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:40pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 9:31am:

If I had my choice, I would buy a Tesla. I don't, but it is likely that person of my socio-economic status would not have been able to buy a Model T Ford in 1910. That didn't stop Ford changing the way we get around. Criticisms of Tesla look like nit-picking to me.

From what I understand it is a great car. That's not the point. It is unaffordable by the vast majority of people and it compares unfavourably with a mid-sized family car in almost every aspect other than performance which for a family car is relatively unimportant. I grant it looks rather nice. But it is still $100,000 and it is still not much use for outback travel with vast distances involved. IN a city though it would be superb. Make it the price of a Camry and I will buy one!

For some reason, nail takes offence at pointing out its unaffordability.

Well, there is my point. It makes perfect sense that they would make their start with up-market vehicles. Just like Ford did. It doesn't mean they will be unaffordable forever.

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Johnsmith

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Re: Tesla
Reply #92 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:56pm

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:35am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 11:08pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 10:35pm:

Would they be any use for long country trips though? Their range would seem to restrict them to shorter runs.

I believe, just of the top of my head so I may be wrong, that they have a range of 300km. That's far enough for what the majority of the population drives in a day.

I'll be driving to Dubbo and back later this month. According to the Tesla website, they have three "supercharging stations, where you can recharge the car in 75 minutes (which, believe it or not, is quick) in NSW, two in Sydney and one in Goulburn. Not much use for a trip to Dubbo....

I agree, and the shortage of charging stations is one of the reasons people are less likely to buy one. But that problem will resolve itself as more and more people put in charging stations. I don't think it'll take long for every roadside diner to put in charge stations. Customer pulls in to charge, has 75 mins to wait, why not grab a meal. ... it makes good business sense

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Johnsmith

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Re: Tesla
Reply #93 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:58pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:25am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 8:13pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 12:36pm:

and Tesla has still only sold 8 cars so far in this country. .

You just keep making crap up as you go don't you? Where did you 8 from? confusing it with your IQ score perhaps?

Tesla's 54 new deliveries in NSW over the first three months of 2015 alone make it the most popular electric car on sale nationally. VicRoads says there were four Tesla vehicles registered at the end of December and 54 by the end of March.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/why-the-tesla-is-australias-bestselling-elect...

wow... 54. About the same number of Camrys bought YESTERDAY. As for being the best selling fully electric car on the market, how many competitors are there?? Hmmmm??? There is the MiEV which seats one and... yep, that's it I think.

Tesla is a great car but it is still massively expensive which is why no one you know owns one.

54 was in NSW only dopey, and no one said it was outselling the camry. Like all new technologies, it takes time to really take off .. It does however shows how clueless or full of poo you are when you are claiming they sold 8 across the whole country

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
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mariacostel

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Re: Tesla
Reply #94 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 3:30pm

issuevoter wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:40pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 9:31am:

If I had my choice, I would buy a Tesla. I don't, but it is likely that person of my socio-economic status would not have been able to buy a Model T Ford in 1910. That didn't stop Ford changing the way we get around. Criticisms of Tesla look like nit-picking to me.

From what I understand it is a great car. That's not the point. It is unaffordable by the vast majority of people and it compares unfavourably with a mid-sized family car in almost every aspect other than performance which for a family car is relatively unimportant. I grant it looks rather nice. But it is still $100,000 and it is still not much use for outback travel with vast distances involved. IN a city though it would be superb. Make it the price of a Camry and I will buy one!

For some reason, nail takes offence at pointing out its unaffordability.

Well, there is my point. It makes perfect sense that they would make their start with up-market vehicles. Just like Ford did. It doesn't mean they will be unaffordable forever.

But they are unaffordable NOW which is the point I am trying to make and seems to elude so many. When they get cheaper and represent actual value-for-money lots of people will probably buy them. But at present they are a high-priced item only a few will buy - and only a few have.

Are they actually 'starting with upmarket vehicles' or is the problem that a usable electric car is intrinsically high priced with todays technology. The battery pack is $40K. That is already more than a Camry and you haven't even built a car yet.

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mariacostel

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Re: Tesla
Reply #95 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 3:34pm

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:35am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 11:08pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 10:35pm:

Would they be any use for long country trips though? Their range would seem to restrict them to shorter runs.

I believe, just of the top of my head so I may be wrong, that they have a range of 300km. That's far enough for what the majority of the population drives in a day.

I'll be driving to Dubbo and back later this month. According to the Tesla website, they have three "supercharging stations, where you can recharge the car in 75 minutes (which, believe it or not, is quick) in NSW, two in Sydney and one in Goulburn. Not much use for a trip to Dubbo....

I agree, and the shortage of charging stations is one of the reasons people are less likely to buy one. But that problem will resolve itself as more and more people put in charging stations. I don't think it'll take long for every roadside diner to put in charge stations. Customer pulls in to charge, has 75 mins to wait, why not grab a meal. ... it makes good business sense

The business case still has to apply. If you want to charge the car in 75mins you need an 80Kw/hr connection. You assume that your roadside diner has that power to spare or the thousands of dollars to put one in in the first place on the off-chance a Tesla will drive past wanting a hamburger. The economies of scale will prohibit this for a very long time. And imagine if three teslas roll up at once and you can only charge one at a time. That's 5 hours waiting. And imagine you can only get a 40kw/hr charge. Suddenly that's ten hours.

It is a more complex equation than you think.

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mariacostel

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Re: Tesla
Reply #96 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 3:35pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:12pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 9:31am:

If I had my choice, I would buy a Tesla. I don't, but it is likely that person of my socio-economic status would not have been able to buy a Model T Ford in 1910. That didn't stop Ford changing the way we get around. Criticisms of Tesla look like nit-picking to me.

From what I understand it is a great car. That's not the point. It is unaffordable by the vast majority of people and it compares unfavourably with a mid-sized family car in almost every aspect other than performance which for a family car is relatively unimportant. I grant it looks rather nice. But it is still $100,000 and it is still not much use for outback travel with vast distances involved. IN a city though it would be superb. Make it the price of a Camry and I will buy one!

For some reason, nail takes offence at pointing out its unaffordability.

There's plenty of unaffordable cars depending on who you are so what is your point ? It's all relative to a persons financial situation.

If Tesla can run a profitable business selling "unaffordable" cars then that is infinitely better than Ford and Holden going out of business trying to sell "affordable" cars !!

Have you priced a BMW lately. Even their cheapest offerings are unaffordable by most peoples standards and yet they still sell here !!

Ferrari run a profitable business too. I don't see you telling everyone how great their cars are for the family.

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Johnsmith

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Re: Tesla
Reply #97 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:17pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 3:34pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:35am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 11:08pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 10:35pm:

Would they be any use for long country trips though? Their range would seem to restrict them to shorter runs.

I believe, just of the top of my head so I may be wrong, that they have a range of 300km. That's far enough for what the majority of the population drives in a day.

I'll be driving to Dubbo and back later this month. According to the Tesla website, they have three "supercharging stations, where you can recharge the car in 75 minutes (which, believe it or not, is quick) in NSW, two in Sydney and one in Goulburn. Not much use for a trip to Dubbo....

I agree, and the shortage of charging stations is one of the reasons people are less likely to buy one. But that problem will resolve itself as more and more people put in charging stations. I don't think it'll take long for every roadside diner to put in charge stations. Customer pulls in to charge, has 75 mins to wait, why not grab a meal. ... it makes good business sense

The business case still has to apply. If you want to charge the car in 75mins you need an 80Kw/hr connection. You assume that your roadside diner has that power to spare or the thousands of dollars to put one in in the first place on the off-chance a Tesla will drive past wanting a hamburger. The economies of scale will prohibit this for a very long time. And imagine if three teslas roll up at once and you can only charge one at a time. That's 5 hours waiting. And imagine you can only get a 40kw/hr charge. Suddenly that's ten hours.

It is a more complex equation than you think.

gee, imagine the costs of installing a few power points compared to the costs involved in building a petrol station .... my gosh, how will they ever do it! Cheesy

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
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Wolseley Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1453 Sydney Gender:	Re: Tesla Reply #98 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:40pm I'm sure I read somewhere that the base Model S was not supercharger enabled.
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Johnsmith

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Re: Tesla
Reply #99 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 9:39pm

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:40pm:

I'm sure I read somewhere that the base Model S was not supercharger enabled.

Superchargers are free connectors that charge Model S in minutes instead of hours.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

ohh, and the shortest range is closer to 380km's, not 300km. More expensive models get more range.

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
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Wolseley

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Re: Tesla
Reply #100 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 10:12pm

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 9:39pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:40pm:

I'm sure I read somewhere that the base Model S was not supercharger enabled.

Superchargers are free connectors that charge Model S in minutes instead of hours.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

Yes, I had a look at the Tesla website, and it looks like it is an optional extra for the Model S:
Quote:

How do I know if my car can Supercharge?
All 90kWh, 85 kWh, 70 kWh Model S and Supercharging-enabled 60kWh cars are capable of Supercharging. Contact Tesla Service at (877) 798-3752 (international phone numbers) if you would like to enable the Supercharger option.

How much does it cost to use the Superchargers?
Supercharging is free for the life of Model S, once the Supercharger option is enabled.

I couldn't see anywhere that mentioned the cost of enabling the the Supercharger option.

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Johnsmith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4716 Gender:	Re: Tesla Reply #101 - Oct 15^th, 2015 at 10:46pm Ok ... there was no mention of that where I looked.
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mariacostel

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Re: Tesla
Reply #102 - Oct 16^th, 2015 at 7:14am

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:17pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 3:34pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:35am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 11:08pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 10:35pm:

Would they be any use for long country trips though? Their range would seem to restrict them to shorter runs.

I believe, just of the top of my head so I may be wrong, that they have a range of 300km. That's far enough for what the majority of the population drives in a day.

I'll be driving to Dubbo and back later this month. According to the Tesla website, they have three "supercharging stations, where you can recharge the car in 75 minutes (which, believe it or not, is quick) in NSW, two in Sydney and one in Goulburn. Not much use for a trip to Dubbo....

I agree, and the shortage of charging stations is one of the reasons people are less likely to buy one. But that problem will resolve itself as more and more people put in charging stations. I don't think it'll take long for every roadside diner to put in charge stations. Customer pulls in to charge, has 75 mins to wait, why not grab a meal. ... it makes good business sense

The business case still has to apply. If you want to charge the car in 75mins you need an 80Kw/hr connection. You assume that your roadside diner has that power to spare or the thousands of dollars to put one in in the first place on the off-chance a Tesla will drive past wanting a hamburger. The economies of scale will prohibit this for a very long time. And imagine if three teslas roll up at once and you can only charge one at a time. That's 5 hours waiting. And imagine you can only get a 40kw/hr charge. Suddenly that's ten hours.

It is a more complex equation than you think.

gee, imagine the costs of installing a few power points compared to the costs involved in building a petrol station .... my gosh, how will they ever do it! Cheesy

Its not a 10amp plug. it is a special 3-phase power setup for 80Kw/hr not the 2 Kw/hr of a standard plug.

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mariacostel

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Re: Tesla
Reply #103 - Oct 16^th, 2015 at 7:17am

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:40pm:

I'm sure I read somewhere that the base Model S was not supercharger enabled.

Not that it matters. It is one thing for USA to have 3000 supercharger stations around while Australia has two. At 120Kw/hr they aren't going to be located just anywhere in the country. That's a huge power connection for a one-pub town.

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Johnsmith

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Re: Tesla
Reply #104 - Oct 16^th, 2015 at 11:22am

mariacostel wrote on Oct 16^th, 2015 at 7:14am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:17pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 3:34pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 15^th, 2015 at 8:35am:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 11:08pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 14^th, 2015 at 10:35pm:

Would they be any use for long country trips though? Their range would seem to restrict them to shorter runs.

I believe, just of the top of my head so I may be wrong, that they have a range of 300km. That's far enough for what the majority of the population drives in a day.

I'll be driving to Dubbo and back later this month. According to the Tesla website, they have three "supercharging stations, where you can recharge the car in 75 minutes (which, believe it or not, is quick) in NSW, two in Sydney and one in Goulburn. Not much use for a trip to Dubbo....

I agree, and the shortage of charging stations is one of the reasons people are less likely to buy one. But that problem will resolve itself as more and more people put in charging stations. I don't think it'll take long for every roadside diner to put in charge stations. Customer pulls in to charge, has 75 mins to wait, why not grab a meal. ... it makes good business sense

The business case still has to apply. If you want to charge the car in 75mins you need an 80Kw/hr connection. You assume that your roadside diner has that power to spare or the thousands of dollars to put one in in the first place on the off-chance a Tesla will drive past wanting a hamburger. The economies of scale will prohibit this for a very long time. And imagine if three teslas roll up at once and you can only charge one at a time. That's 5 hours waiting. And imagine you can only get a 40kw/hr charge. Suddenly that's ten hours.

It is a more complex equation than you think.

gee, imagine the costs of installing a few power points compared to the costs involved in building a petrol station .... my gosh, how will they ever do it! Cheesy

Its not a 10amp plug. it is a special 3-phase power setup for 80Kw/hr not the 2 Kw/hr of a standard plug.

and? .. i can get an electrician to put 3 phase power in my place for about $300 ... your point?

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

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