Australian Politics Forum - Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll

Jovial Monk

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #15 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 9:08am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 7:14pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 6:46pm:

One poll, with a bias against Labor.

The Green vote slipping back to its normal 8-9%.

Will voters preference as in 2013?

It's the 2nd or 3rd straight poll showing both Labor and Shorten going backwards fast.

It shows Mal had a sugar rush of polls that are now trending down. Even this IPSOS poll just says 50:50.

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Karnal

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #16 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 9:16am

Its time wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 9:49pm:

Karnal wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 9:16pm:

Bam wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 9:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 7:14pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 6:46pm:

One poll, with a bias against Labor.

The Green vote slipping back to its normal 8-9%.

Will voters preference as in 2013?

It's the 2nd or 3rd straight poll showing both Labor and Shorten going backwards fast.

It is normal in the post-transition honeymoon period for the polls to bounce around a bit. Abbott's peak polling in his short-lived honeymoon period was even higher. It didn't last, of course.

We will have a better idea how both leaders and both major parties are travelling early in the new year.

Sorry, Bam, there is now no effective opposition in Australian politics, as everybody knows.

We can.pretend otherwise, but we all know the truth.

Until LAbor find someone who isn’t a boring factional hack, Turnbull’s there for a generation.

You said Abort would win next election as well Wink

Erection, Suppository. There's a difference.

Mr Abbott has a fine one.

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mariacostel

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #17 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:18am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 9:08am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 7:14pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 6:46pm:

One poll, with a bias against Labor.

The Green vote slipping back to its normal 8-9%.

Will voters preference as in 2013?

It's the 2nd or 3rd straight poll showing both Labor and Shorten going backwards fast.

It shows Mal had a sugar rush of polls that are now trending down. Even this IPSOS poll just says 50:50.

53/47, bedwetter!

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Nausicaa

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #18 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:46am

This poll is depressing because it shows how stupid swing voters are.

No change in policy, rhetoric has only slightly changed to better marketing points (Innovation!, Competitive!) rhetoric from Morrison is even more right wing than Abbott (softening up for privatization of health/medicare and essential services), rhetoric on jobs moving back towards workchoices talking points and yet a 6 point lead in the polls!?

It really shows how much power the media has, that a dull potato like Turnbull is now a "suave, smooth talking statesman" while the other dull potato Shorten is "literally worse than cancer"

It shows that nothing is ever about policy, I now believe Abbott could have delivered the best utopian budgets ever and he still would have been at the same level of unpopularity.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47794 Gender:	Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll Reply #19 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:48am This 50:50 poll shows people are relieved abbott is no longer PM. Policy has not changed so the polls will be heading downwards soon enough.
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Nausicaa

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #20 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:57am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:48am:

This 50:50 poll shows people are relieved abbott is no longer PM. Policy has not changed so the polls will be heading downwards soon enough.

Except Turnbulls polls are RISING.

Its bullshit, but Labor are in serious trouble. The issue is the media narrative is set and people just don't care about policy. I've seen political discussion groups that clearly sat in the left now circlejerking over Turnbull based on the fantasy hes a secret left winger or some crap.

What the liberals actually do or even really say doesn't matter, the Canberra Press Gallery has chosen Turnbull as the next PM so he will win the next election.

Do you think if Abbott had Morrison going around floating the privatization of medicare or getting rid of Weekend Penalty Rates it would be on page 35 in the bottom corner like it currently is under Turnbull? Nope, it would be front page.

Labor also have the strategy and PR of a dead rat (I mean, they couldn't even sell the merits of FTTP over FTTN FFS) so Labor are in a bad, bad position.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47794 Gender:	Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll Reply #21 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am Another defeatist like Karnal. The polls say 50:50. Rudd II got better polls, did he win the election? Shorten and Labor have changed tactics in QT and are being highly effective. They have also already released a heap of good policy. I am very optimistic about the next election.
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cods

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #22 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:10am

Its time wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 9:14pm:

The Aussie public generally vote on Charisma but we can thank Tony for putting them all under the blow torch now after without doubt the worst 2 years in my lifetime. Best of luck selling his policies turncoat Cheesy

without doubt the worst 2 years in my lifetime

blimey supp... sorry to hear that what happened to you??? what did b ig bad tony do to you???..

tell us give us the list... Cry

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cods

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #23 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:12am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

Another defeatist like Karnal.

The polls say 50:50. Rudd II got better polls, did he win the election?

Shorten and Labor have changed tactics in QT and are being highly effective. They have also already released a heap of good policy.

I am very optimistic about the next election.

now now monk you have done it again kruddy was Mr76% everyone adored him... even those selfies..I am sure your wall was covered.

tell us about those policies I must have missed them.. I dont do QT or Q&A...as for shortarse making his mark... hehehehehehehe.. but then you are so easily pleased arent you dear?...

but anyway those policies

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mariacostel

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #24 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:14am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

Another defeatist like Karnal.

The polls say 50:50. Rudd II got better polls, did he win the election?

Shorten and Labor have changed tactics in QT and are being highly effective. They have also already released a heap of good policy.

I am very optimistic about the next election.

Polls say 53/47 to Coalition.... and RISING!

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Nausicaa

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #25 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:29am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

They have also already released a heap of good policy.

If Policy mattered a single bit, then Libs would essentially never hold Government, Abbott would have lost in a landslide against Rudd.

The issue is that the media holds Labor to insane standards that it doesn't hold the libs too, Libs are seen as the "default" Governing party of Australia by the media and populace and never have to actually prove their worth and not only does Labor have both of these to contend with, Labors strategy and PR for DECADES has been atrocious and completely divorced from reality. This is the party that couldn't even sell the FTTP NBN.

Labor has always had good policy, but the huge (unfair) standards they are held too along with their terrible PR means they are F**ked, especially with the media and public circlejerk over Turnbull, hell I know Greens voters who are now preferencing Libs over Labor because of the perception of Turnbull.

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Karnal

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #26 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:15am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

Another defeatist like Karnal.

Depends on who gets defeated, dear. Malcolm Turnbull is simply the better man for the job. Shorten would be another Abbott - never a popular PM, hounded by the press for his gaffes, backflipping on important policies and unable to implement necessary reforms.

He would, just like Abbott, be knifed by his own party in his first term - if he got that far.

What Shorten represents is Labor's redundant, undemocratic factional system and the fixers within Labor ranks. Shorten's a fixer himself. His rise to the leadership is a victory for the invisible men.

The ALP has a lot more to do than just replacing Shorten. It needs to find a reason for its very existence. Then, and only then, it needs to build a system that reflects its purpose - open ballots? Closed ballots? Primaries? It needs to develop a rigorous preselection process. Many Labor MPs have no more employment experience than either working as political staffers or working for a union. The lack of clear, alternative leaders within the ALP highlights this lack of talent.

As Shorten's own career shows, the ALP uses seats in parliament as political rewards. Its mates in business kick in to fund the preselection process and the campaign. The ALP is not a meritocracy, it's an oligarchy, funded by big business. As Shorten's career also shows, this comes at the expense of the workers the unions and Labor are meant to be working for.

As leaders, Latham and Gillard both saw the need to recruit talent outside the narrow ALP career path. Latham headhunted Peter Garrett. It was interesting to see Garrett recently reflect on his time in politics. Was it worth it? Garrett couldn't say. The career Laborites see politics as an end in itself. Those who enter politics to change things see things differently. Latham himself exposed the futility of modern Labor politics. His advice to those who want to make a difference?

Don't bother.

With Abbott gone, the ALP is in now the political wilderness. With a new centrist strategy, I doubt Turnbull will bomb any time soon. Turnbull is now taking the middle ground from Labor.

It's time to get to work. The ALP needs to work on itself before it can do anything for anyone else. The last 6 years of Labor dysfunction and factional powerbroking expose this for all to see.

This isn't defeatism, it's the only thing that will work. Labor will not be electable until it reforms itself.

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« Last Edit: Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:39am by Karnal »

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Vic

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #27 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:52am

Karnal wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:15am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

Another defeatist like Karnal.

Depends on who gets defeated, dear. Malcolm Turnbull is simply the better man for the job. Shorten would be another Abbott - never a popular PM, hounded by the press for his gaffes, backflipping on important policies and unable to implement necessary reforms.

He would, just like Abbott, be knifed by his own party in his first term - if he got that far.

What Shorten represents is Labor's redundant, undemocratic factional system and the fixers within Labor ranks. Shorten's a fixer himself. His rise to the leadership is a victory for the invisible men.

The ALP has a lot more to do than just replacing Shorten. It needs to find a reason for its very existence. Then, and only then, it needs to build a system that reflects its purpose - open ballots? Closed ballots? Primaries? It needs to develop a rigorous preselection process. Many Labor MPs have no more employment experience than either working as political staffers or working for a union. The lack of clear, alternative leaders within the ALP highlights this lack of talent.

As Shorten's own career shows, the ALP uses seats in parliament as political rewards. Its mates in business kick in to fund the preselection process and the campaign. The ALP is not a meritocracy, it's an oligarchy, funded by big business. As Shorten's career also shows, this comes at the expense of the workers the unions and Labor are meant to be working for.

As leaders, Latham and Gillard both saw the need to recruit talent outside the narrow ALP career path. Latham headhunted Peter Garrett. It was interesting to see Garrett recently reflect on his time in politics. Was it worth it? Garrett couldn't say. The career Laborites see politics as an end in itself. Those who enter politics to change things see things differently. Latham himself exposed the futility of modern Labor politics. His advice to those who want to make a difference?

Don't bother.

With Abbott gone, the ALP is in now the political wilderness. With a new centrist strategy, I doubt Turnbull will bomb any time soon. Turnbull is now taking the middle ground from Labor.

It's time to get to work. The ALP needs to work on itself before it can do anything for anyone else. The last 6 years of Labor dysfunction and factional powerbroking expose this for all to see.

This isn't defeatism, it's the only thing that will work. Labor will not be electable until it reforms itself.

Excellent Summation Karnal.

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Dnarever

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #28 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:56am

Karnal wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:15am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:03am:

Another defeatist like Karnal.

Depends on who gets defeated, dear. Malcolm Turnbull is simply the better man for the job. Shorten would be another Abbott - never a popular PM, hounded by the press for his gaffes, backflipping on important policies and unable to implement necessary reforms.

He would, just like Abbott, be knifed by his own party in his first term - if he got that far.

What Shorten represents is Labor's redundant, undemocratic factional system and the fixers within Labor ranks. Shorten's a fixer himself. His rise to the leadership is a victory for the invisible men.

The ALP has a lot more to do than just replacing Shorten. It needs to find a reason for its very existence. Then, and only then, it needs to build a system that reflects its purpose - open ballots? Closed ballots? Primaries? It needs to develop a rigorous preselection process. Many Labor MPs have no more employment experience than either working as political staffers or working for a union. The lack of clear, alternative leaders within the ALP highlights this lack of talent.

As Shorten's own career shows, the ALP uses seats in parliament as political rewards. Its mates in business kick in to fund the preselection process and the campaign. The ALP is not a meritocracy, it's an oligarchy, funded by big business. As Shorten's career also shows, this comes at the expense of the workers the unions and Labor are meant to be working for.

As leaders, Latham and Gillard both saw the need to recruit talent outside the narrow ALP career path. Latham headhunted Peter Garrett. It was interesting to see Garrett recently reflect on his time in politics. Was it worth it? Garrett couldn't say. The career Laborites see politics as an end in itself. Those who enter politics to change things see things differently. Latham himself exposed the futility of modern Labor politics. His advice to those who want to make a difference?

Don't bother.

With Abbott gone, the ALP is in now the political wilderness. With a new centrist strategy, I doubt Turnbull will bomb any time soon. Turnbull is now taking the middle ground from Labor.

It's time to get to work. The ALP needs to work on itself before it can do anything for anyone else. The last 6 years of Labor dysfunction and factional powerbroking expose this for all to see.

This isn't defeatism, it's the only thing that will work. Labor will not be electable until it reforms itself.

The real Turnbull is probably worse than Abbott and the voters have enough time to work it out.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Labor's Nightmare ~ Fairfax Ipsos Poll
Reply #29 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:44am

Nausicaa wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:57am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:48am:

This 50:50 poll shows people are relieved abbott is no longer PM. Policy has not changed so the polls will be heading downwards soon enough.

Except Turnbulls polls are RISING.

Its bullshit, but Labor are in serious trouble. The issue is the media narrative is set and people just don't care about policy. I've seen political discussion groups that clearly sat in the left now circlejerking over Turnbull based on the fantasy hes a secret left winger or some crap.

What the liberals actually do or even really say doesn't matter, the Canberra Press Gallery has chosen Turnbull as the next PM so he will win the next election.

Do you think if Abbott had Morrison going around floating the privatization of medicare or getting rid of Weekend Penalty Rates it would be on page 35 in the bottom corner like it currently is under Turnbull? Nope, it would be front page.

Labor also have the strategy and PR of a dead rat (I mean, they couldn't even sell the merits of FTTP over FTTN for goodness sake) so Labor are in a bad, bad position.

We don’t need fairweather friends and bedwetters like you!

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